Mirrors

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: The Stunishing Legends Network.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: This claimer, this episode includes the usual amount of adult language and graphic discussions

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you've come to expect around here, but in the event it becomes an unusual amount, expecting

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: another call from me.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to Scared All The Time, I'm Chris Kilari, and I'm Ed Vakola, and this week

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_03]: we're taking a long hard look at ourselves and then screaming in terror at what we see.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That's right, we're gazing this week into the deep dark world of mirrors, those simple

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: planes of reflective glass that have been freaking people out since pretty much we had to

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_03]: first confront ourselves in them.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: From ancient superstitions to modern-day urban legends, from magical rituals to psychological

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_03]: terrors, mirrors have been reflecting our deepest fears back out of us from millennia, and

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_03]: sometimes those fears can have terrible, terrible consequences.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So, grab your compact, make sure you don't have any food in your teeth, and maybe

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: throw a sheet over that full length mirror in your bedroom.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: The square boys are about to get reflective.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: A little bit of quick housekeeping up top.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: If you are a subscriber and we encourage you all to stop by our premium page, you can get

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: to from Scared All The Time Podcast.com.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We have our live show this month is going to be next Monday, the 30th.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna be 6 p.m.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: West Coast, 9 p.m.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_03]: East Coast, and they usually go about 2 hours.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: At maximum.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: At maximum.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Because you know, I'm doing a lot better than our last live show physically, but I'm

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: still not 100%.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see if I can get a full 2 hours.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to say that up top so you guys know to tune in next week, but also let's

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_01]: get a what is our health update?

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing okay.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: My legs still pretty messed up.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I still have this huge hematoma or whatever it's called that it's like having two knees on

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: my left leg.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It looks insane.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'll put it in the show notes.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Other than that, physical therapy for other stuff and it's all.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Going great.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's moving along, you know, a little better every day, still still in the hunt

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: for new car.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: All that shit.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Other than that, like getting a little better every day just don't know if I have two

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: hours of live shows in me.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That's all right.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll do an hour and a half.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll do whatever we do.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It's always fine.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It's always a good hang.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: If you haven't tuned into one of our live shows before, it's sort of a hangout.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: We let you behind the scenes a little bit.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: We kind of talk with everybody in the chat.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: We sometimes have updates on stories from old episodes.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: We tease new episodes.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: We read from different weird sources, books and things that I wrote as a kid and who

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_03]: knows it's always a grab bag but it's always fun and we've got a really solid crew that

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_03]: shows up like every week or every month that we do these.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: They're real.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: They're great.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Shout out to you guys, you know who you are and we hope more of you join us this

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: month.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, also I just actually directed the Asanshing Legends live show, The Junk drawer.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And I saw Samantha Cartman dropped an RIP God bless in there and it was happy to see

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: it could have seen scared all the time like in the wild.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, getting some of our or lingo out there for other people to pick up on.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Hell yeah, dude.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So thanks for that.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, thank you, Samantha.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, before we dive into the show, you guys know it.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys love it.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_03]: We want to do five star corner real quick.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_03]: We got some good reviews.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_03]: If you've never heard five star corner before, the idea is you leave us a five star

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: review and we might read it.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So the first one I want to read that we got is five stars anxiety in a nutshell

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: from glitter burrito.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And the review is simply if my intrusive thoughts made a podcast which warms my heart

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: it is maybe one of the best reviews you've ever gotten.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So one of the most distinct.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, glitter burrito.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: We are your intrusive thoughts and we'll be here keeping you up around the clock until Ed's

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: he metoma explodes.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like it's going to sometimes.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, yes, like if I roll on it in bed, I'm like is this just enough pressure

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: where it pops or whatever?

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: That would be so bad.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That would be all.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure it'll just die, right?

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I imagine it being like a, it pops and it's just like a GI Joe's knee socket breaks off

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and like you, your leg just falls off at the point where your humitoba exploded.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It might, it might but also it's not like it's pus or stuff because it's not like a zid.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's blood.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So in my mind I'm like, you have to go to surgery to have these drained.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like yeah, it's, it's as my blood just think this is the new fucking road map

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: or it's like okay now we go up here and we go back down here.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I needed to know that this is not the road.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: We should like we need to close this fucking route down for my blood.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_03]: There is some bonus content.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We should get, when I was in high school, a friend of mine on the cross country team had

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_03]: like some cyst on his head and my friend's dad was a doctor and he brought like a scalpel

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and some like anesthetic home from the hospital and just cut the cyst over the sink

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and like drained it over the sink in their kitchen and we were all watched.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe we should do, maybe we could find a shady doctor who would drain your humitoba

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: during our live show.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we need to do that.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I also again it seemed like it was a bit more intrusive than just like having something

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_01]: a landstoff, you know.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the still the size of like a fucking half a man to an orange still.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not an insignificant thing.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_01]: When I say it's like having two knees it looks like having two knees.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Alright well that was disgusting.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah guys.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Now what, Ed what's our next five star review?

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: This person wrote so f and funny is the letter F letter N.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I have listened since day one in sat is my favorite pod.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Very nice of them.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: The content is engaging but more importantly, y'all are hilarious and make me laugh with your

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: reparty reparty reparty.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay reparty.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay reparty is two ease and it's in quotes.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot going on for me to deal with at that moment.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we're being mocked.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You're quote unquote or reparty.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well it goes on.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's not reenact every segment though.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay so we got mean quickly.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like, okay I see.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's not reenact every segment though.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd hate for Ed to disappear into a sinkhole.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah I think maybe they're commenting on the fact that we've manifested a sudden death

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01]: scenario this season.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's not keep manifesting stuff.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Right exactly.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a couple of things coming up this season though that when you see the title you're

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: like, oh I see these guys do want to manifest these ones.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're working on that same wavelength.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway that's some tie-by girl.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, tie-by girl.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, tie-by girl.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll do one more five stars.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: TikTok challenges, smoke and Emma's Satan and much more.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Great description of the show honestly.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I found this pod from astonishing legends that I've been catching up.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_03]: My husband and I literally go fall multiple times through every episode.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Ed and Chris are so relatable and their banter is perfect.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: See they used banter is perfect and not reparté in scarequads.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So I like this one.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Reparté is let's not keep doing this.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I've loved everything I've heard and I can't wait for more.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I love finding new things to be afraid of and hearing the interesting facts behind

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: the fears.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And Ed, I'm still waiting to see loobs and tubes in a grocery store near me.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god thank God this is good that it's remind me of loobs and tubes.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: That's that would make a good pin.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I do need a pin number six ideas.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'll use loobs and tubes.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, if you guys are waiting for your buttons of the month, Ed just shipped them.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: They're all out now.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_03]: They're all out now.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you haven't signed up for button of the month club yet on the premium page,

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: you should definitely take a look at the buttons that we've sent out so far.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think you'll agree they're very funny and will look great on some sort of a backpack

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_03]: or jacket where you can spread all the scared all the time love around the world.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So, all right guys that's it for housekeeping.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much for listening and let's dive in on what I think is our first

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: true sort of spooky season episode this month mirrors which is also I think just a really

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: good episode like I really liked recording this and I really like listening this

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: one back.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I hated recording this and you will listen to it back.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It was miserably hot.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, yeah they'll get into though here that they'll hear that.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: They'll hear you guys will hear.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, here it is.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Mirror.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to Scarlet all the time.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the fucking we'll do a live episode between Ed's accident and my moving to Pasadena.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: We have decided that the best way to get this episode recorded is to do it in the same room together.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So this will be we haven't done this since what episode two three three

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: sense abandoned towns when we looked at each other and were like this is we've made a mistake.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: We can't release this episode.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So we've got great precedent set.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Well so anyway you'll have to excuse this is going to be more like what you'd

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_03]: get from a scared all the time live episode.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's good practice for us and hopefully very entertaining for you.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: All right Ed before we dive into the darkest of mirrors I want to know.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Have you ever had a creepy experience with the mirror?

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe caught something out of the coin of your eye that shouldn't have been there.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Play Bloody Mary, that kind of thing.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't play Bloody Mary or anything.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: There's just no way knowing me I would ever do that.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But I've taken drugs.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So of course I've had creepy experiences with mirrors.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of like good advice from drug friends.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you know don't look at the mirror.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or anything and then you're like run right at the bathroom and you're like,

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, who is that?

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not me.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But no, so I've had that experience.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a mirror but it kind is.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I was doing a zoom call but I was watching a movie on zoom with someone.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I see myself a digital reflection of myself kind of the same as a mirror if you think about it.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I swear to God, I was not on drugs.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I swear the shirt, I'm like the back of my chair.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I was like laying in this kind of chair couch thing.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Like had slipped off and fell to the ground.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I swear I saw that on the zoom and I like turned and it was still perfectly on the chair.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh shit.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And so that's a good one.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's kind of the closest and that would have only been post pandemics.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: That reminds me of there's a video I saw on the internet once and there was debate over whether or not it was fake.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like I'm pretty good at sensing when a video is fake or when it feels like something's not straightforward or someone's being,

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, someone's trying to sell you, sell you some shit.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was these group of guys playing, I think they were playing video games or watching a movie over zoom,

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: something.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And the one guy is sitting there talking and his screen kind of looks like, you know,

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: the way you look on zoom when you're in the dark and it's really just the computer is illuminating your eyes.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So the back would still be like kind of dark.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Darks.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And you fully see a person walk behind him.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a part of what convinced me that it's real is that there's clearly some lag in the stream.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So the friends all react.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_03]: They're all just talking, talking, talking and the friends just are like, oh, Jesus Christ.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_03]: The fuck is that?

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Kid has no idea that there was like he didn't see anything go behind him.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I forget if they try to get him to watch it back wherever,

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: but the reactions were just very genuine.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And then somebody was like, if it was not fake, it probably was like, you know,

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_03]: sometimes in like low light on a bad computer video,

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_03]: someone can walk behind you and it'll look greasy.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it'll look smear because you're not getting like an impression of a thing.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, it's a creepy video.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll see if I can dig it up and put it in the show notes.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I don't remember anything about what it was called or yeah,

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the playing at back thing is interesting because I remember because we do these stream yards,

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, we record the show not right now, but when we normally do remotely.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like at the end of it, we're going to get a recording of it because I need it for the show.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember that on that I was like, fuck, this isn't recording or anything.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But I can't go back and check.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to bring it up a lot to the person I'm with and seem crazy.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I mean, so I've, I've, I've also never played Bloody Mary.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I was always way too scared.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember kids trying to explain it to me.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to say like on the school bus.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, they tell you like, yeah, you go in with dark bathroom,

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_03]: you chant Bloody Mary three times in the mirror and then she comes out of the mirror to kill you.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: These kids told me that she comes out of the mirror to kill you because I remember being very confused.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I was just too literal as a kid when I remember being very confused about like,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: why anyone would do this game?

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think, you know, to me, I was like, and maybe this is where I can think.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Catholicism for instilling the fear of the supernatural in me so young, but like,

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: there was no great. It was like, well, to, I think to them it was like a fun legend like,

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I actually come out of the mirror and kill you. And to me, it was like, no, you say your name three times

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and then she'll come kill you. Like that's why you would do this.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it didn't make any sense to me.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like for people like us, if anyone was like, hey, we're going to,

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to do this like the initial reaction is like, we have to tackle this person on the ground.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? Like, I've ever there a mouth like not saying Beetlejuice three times.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Like, because there, yeah, there are, and that's as crazy.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the problem I have with like, Ouija boards or really any like communicating with

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: paranormal, it's like, what is the best case scenario? Like, they're all from me.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_01]: The cost benefit analysis is like the cost is too great. Like, even if you're successful.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, here's the thing. I mean, yes, I do think, you know, now when I was a kid, it was like,

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I think again because of Catholicism, I did have this belief of like ritual works. Like,

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_03]: a ritual, you know, when you're in church and they bring out the body of blood of Christ

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and they pray over it. It becomes the body and blood of Christ and then you eat it and then

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: you're eating the body and blood. And so to me, it's like, well, ritual, whether it's bloody

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: mario or whether it's Ouija or something like it must work and it's better not fuck around with it.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But now is an adult and I'm more of a skeptic. I guess what I feeling is if it did work with any kind

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: of consistency, we would have proven the existence of the supernatural by now.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, probably. You know, like, if it truly was more than just like a feeling spooky,

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_03]: we'd be bloody mario or horror movies before horror movies. It was a safe way to scare yourself

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and not, you know, actually end up getting hurt or something. But I think in a world where

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: we have less participatory ways of scaring yourself, they almost have this weird antiquated

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: weird aura around them that makes them feel more real almost. Now did you see talk to me?

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You haven't seen talk. I haven't actually seen talk to me yet. I'm talking to me. I'm

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: innocent, Harrison. It's fine. I don't watch horror movies but I rolled over on my controller

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and it shows that I'm like HBO or something and I was like, oh, okay, whatever. I don't want

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: to be like, it was hot and I was like laid up on the couch and I was like, I'll just watch it.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was the first 10 minutes scared me so I turned it off. But that movie had the thing in

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: the movie where they have to grab a hand and then deal with the supernatural that way. Actually

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: does play as a great community-based paranormal thing because it's fun. People like it even

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: is terrifying. I don't mean the audience, I mean the characters but it's very much like everyone

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: comes to parties to do it and they bring it places and so that's kind of on that same vein

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: of like a wager boy who are playing and everyone going to the bathroom together.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I got to check it out because I made a return to the world of Bloody Mary for a TV pilot

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that I wrote a few years ago and it's one of my most crushing defeats in the film industry.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_03]: It was myself from Blum House in the CW and we like reimagined Bloody Mary for modern teens

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and I probably shouldn't say too much about it because I still want to have it come back

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and some shape or form someday. And I feel like between talk to me and Ouija and Taro,

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_03]: like there's a space where you know these are movies are taking on some of these more like I call

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_03]: it sleep over horror. Yeah, it's like sleep over horror kind of tropes. But that script,

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_03]: it was born more out of a general interest in the Bloody Mary legend than any specific trauma

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_03]: in counter-roll playing Bloody Mary and I feel like most people listening to this show probably

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_03]: have a pretty good sense of what the Bloody Mary legend entails and really at the end of the

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_03]: day it's very there's not much to it. It's it's fairly vague and there's a bunch of different

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_03]: explanations usually it's merriys either like a girl who is killed on prom night somewhere in the

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Elizabeth Bathory the woman who bathed in the blood of Ouija. Oh yeah, I mean yeah,

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_03]: it's probably that she's connected to the Bloody Mary legend but it's kind of vague and I feel like

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_03]: we're not really going to get too much juice out of talking about Bloody Mary in this episode

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and also that's what everybody expects in this episode so we're going to throw you a curve ball

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_03]: because while I was researching I came across a number of new Bloody Mary like games that

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Gen Z and maybe even Gen Alpha I've been making up to freak their friends out in a bunch of new and

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: sane ways and I thought this was pulling up on spooky season that exploring some of these legends

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and rituals might be a great way to kick off this episode so listen or if you've heard of any

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_03]: of these or if you've tried them right in and let us know about your experiences. Add of course

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_03]: if you know any of these chime in but we don't know what the kids are in too so definitely these are

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: brand new to me. The first legend is called Lady Spades. This is a Bloody Mary riff that the

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: internet tells me as popular in Russia but I think that might just be because of Russian right or

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_03]: named Alexander Pushkin wrote a short supernatural story called The Queen of Spades in the 1800s.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_03]: In that story a Russian officer of German ancestry named Herman with two ends that great German

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Herman Munster. Yeah, learns that a fellow officers grandmother this old countess possesses

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: secret of winning at Farrow which is like I guess a high stakes card game. Herman begins a liaison

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: with Lizaveta the countess is in power strong word to gain access to the old woman who in the countess

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: refuses to reveal the secret he threatens her with a pistol and she dies of fright. Oh wow

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: which no one does anymore. No it's just like they do. If I had watched one more minute of that movie

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I might have. The Knight of the Countess's funeral, Herman dreams that the countess has told him the

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: meaning cards for this game of Farrow three seven and ace. Herman then places bets on the three

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and seven and wins. After betting everything on the ace which wins Herman is harrstricin

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: to see that he is holding not the ace but the queen of spades who seems to smile up at him as the

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_03]: countess did from her casket so he loses the game. Oh what did he assuming all of his money in

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_03]: 1800s Russia if you lost that much at a high stakes card game you probably were eating potatoes

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and ice for the rest of your life or something. Yeah you're rubbleless now. You're rubbleless so you

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: got to you got to go live in a mirror I don't know where this is going. No no we'll see that's that's

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_03]: queen of spades which is this story that I think is why the internet says that lady spades is popular

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: in Russia. I don't know that it really is I think it's just sort of been confused or there's some

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: overlapping whatever the Russian listeners let us know. Yeah but I mean the stories spooky enough on

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_03]: its own and I'm pretty sure I said it's unrelated to this game but according to I found the rules

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_03]: for lady spades on the ghost in my machine dot com so I'm reading from them here the game breaks

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: down as follows. This is what you'll need to play you need a candle you need matches or a lighter

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you need lipstick preferably red although other colors may also be acceptable. A quiet dark room

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_03]: a mirror the mirror may be a fixture of the room so a bathroom mirror and then you need a

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_03]: queen of spades pulled from a deck of cards. So once you've got to bring wealth into play this game

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_03]: that's true I mean yeah until recently in our lives I'm not sure either of us had rooms that

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: were quiet I mean dark for sure dark for sure they they're like electric company turned

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03]: off. But so once you've got all that ready to go this summoning of lady spade can begin

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_03]: you enter the quiet dark room at the stroke of midnight you make sure all the lights are off

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_03]: place the candle in front of them here and light it with your matches or lighter and this is where

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_03]: it starts to differ from bloody Mary because bloody Mary you just say the name and in this case

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: you use the lipstick and you write lady spades on the mirror so again you better be rich

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: because you fuck up your mirror and you better be able to replace it. You then hold the queen of

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: spades in your hand such as that she is facing the mirror so you want to see the back of your

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_03]: card and the queen of spades facing the mirror. Close your eyes empty your mind easier to do if you're rich

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that's not sweet yeah that's really like the max as much as you are able then repeat the words

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_03]: lady spades appear seven times keep your eyes closed and call up the image of lady spades in your

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_03]: mind which to me this part seems tricky because everyone's gonna picture a different lady

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: and the ritual doesn't really specify anyone at particular so my lady spades might look like

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: random lady ice on the street I think a lot of people will probably think of the queen on the card that's

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: true that's true. I think it might be fun if you picture a Academy of Warming Actress Helen Mirren

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_03]: could be a good one sure or whoever it doesn't matter your picture lady spades all the

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_03]: ritual tells us is that lady spades will be dressed in black with eyes to match and although her

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_03]: smile can melt even the coldest of hearts her face will be mangled in scarred.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Cute do not panic if you hear woman's voice or laughter or the echo of footsteps nearby.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh no I will I will definitely. Is that panic? Are you kidding me? Well for the rich people it's

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: to it's the best probably the butler yeah or what made or something like that. But don't panic

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_03]: because if you hear a woman's voice or laughter or the echo of footsteps these sounds indicate

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_03]: a successful summoning you may now open your eyes warning though things can go wrong during this

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_03]: summoning so if you try it any of the following occur when you open your eyes do not proceed.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_03]: If the candle is out if the card is facing you, meaning it's turned around by itself in your hand

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_03]: presumably the card is missing or most concerningly you see a woman in the mirror with her hands

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: pressed up against it. Oh wow I should try like looking into a window. Yeah so if you see that

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: if you see any of those things immediately enact the appropriate ending for your situation as

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: indicated below we'll go through those endings in a second. If however you open your eyes and see a woman

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_03]: in the mirror with her hands by her sides you may proceed as follows. State your wish to the woman

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: hold eye contacts with her no matter what happens next if you break eye contact immediately

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and act the appropriate ending for your situation as indicated in a moment. Assuming that you hold eye

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_03]: contact with the lady whose arms are by her sides and she decides to grant your wish she will smile at

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_03]: you and say yes if the ritual is successful if you hear yes say the words lady spades disappear

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_03]: then wipe her name from the mirror which is super hard to do if it's lipstick that's not going anywhere.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I don't know unless you have alcohol or something. Yeah some sort of make-up

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_03]: move rather imagine add that to the list of things that you'll need because otherwise you're just

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_03]: going to smear lipstick all over the mirror. Yeah but wipe her name from the mirror below at the

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_03]: candle turn the lights on burn the queen of spades card to ash as soon as possible and your wish

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_03]: should come true. Oh good shortly it takes pain to mention we should do that we'll do it on how

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_03]: will we night. Well do it tonight. You're here that's sure I am there's no mirror in this room.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank God and I don't know add your lipstick. I don't have any lipstick. Just for your

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: wife any lipstick? She might my wife downstairs as we record this episode so she might she might have

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: lipstick. I have a I've been getting ready for years with the only mirror in my bedroom. It's just

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: the like are you will a bouskeye achiever or whatever like time magazine cover that's near

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_01]: it's that's fucking like eight and a half file evidence is like I've never seen what outfit I'm wearing

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_01]: in it you know before I left for the day. I see my outfit for the day in the reflection of a movie

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_03]: poster frame. This is what I mean if we could prove the existence of the supernatural by making

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_03]: lady spades appear and the lebowski little achiever award. Mirror. Which will have a picture of

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_03]: in the show notes. Well yeah someone listening Photoshop that for us please I'm sure you can find

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_03]: those images online. I'd love to see what this will look like. It'll be even crazier if it's like

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: if I see a woman with her hands pressed against the glass of my like tron poster frame.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's so crazy. That would be that's honestly scarier somehow than the mirror thing.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Because then you're just like in your room walking by a piece of artwork. It should not.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah then it's like that fucking it's that Harry Potter hallway or like the staircase.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah because they can like walk between portraits and stuff. They're like living in the whole world.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So if a ghost followed you in the reflection of each frame in your home, like as you're walking

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: downstairs into the kitchen now it's in like the frames in your living room. I'd be like get out of here too

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: much. I don't I don't like it. So I have that was an aside so anyway we have to learn about so that was

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01]: successful. What's the person's name? Bloody Henry who's this person? Lady Spades. Lady Spades. Who sounds like

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Sam Spades wife. It might be. I don't know Sam Spades. He makes him into a devil life. I don't know.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Well that's true I guess but you know he Spades doesn't sound like an old Russian

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_03]: countess or anything. Lady Spades sounds like a Dame. Yeah. He's got a kick your door in.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Also could be like a carney attraction that's true but that said, that was a successful

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Lady Spades summoning and presumably granting of a wish. Yes. So now you said there's things to do

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_03]: if things are dark. Yes. If the ritual is unsuccessful proceed as directed for each situation. So

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_03]: if you open your eyes and the candle is gone out, real light is quickly as possible. Say the words

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Lady Spades disappear. Weipername from the mirror blow out the candle and turn the lights on.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Burn the queen of Spades card immediately. Pretty straightforward. If you open your eyes and the

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: card is facing you rather than the mirror rip the card in half which I think I would do on

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_03]: the instinct. Say the words Lady Spades disappear. Weipername from the mirror blow out the candle

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and turn the lights on. Burn the pieces of the queen of Spades card immediately. If you

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_03]: open your eyes and the card is missing, break the mirror. Really? That's right. Break the mirror.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. Turn on the lights and attempt to locate the card in the room. If you find it, burn

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_03]: it. If you don't leave it and vacate the premises immediately. So man if the card is missing

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_03]: that seems like kind of the almost the worst case scenario so far but it's but they do say to look

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: so it's like you and your friends being like is it under the fucking garbage can? Yeah I guess if you

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_03]: can't find it to bring your whole home down. You will know you break the mirror and you burn

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_03]: the card if you find it. It doesn't say anything about burning your home but you know just in case.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing it's like okay I started playing this game. I lost. Yep. Both at the

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: outcome I was trying to achieve and I literally lost the card and the response to that is to get

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: seven years bad luck. Hey, that's a fucking mirror dude. Well maybe whoever invented this game

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: when the card went missing they had so pissed off at themselves. They just shattered it. They broke

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_03]: the mirror. They threw a wee remote through it. If you open your eyes and the woman's hands are

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_03]: pressed against the mirror, break the mirror immediately vacate the premises and burn the card.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't that let her in? She's against the mirror. So now you've set it true. You know what I mean?

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't it be like oh thanks? What I wanted. Yeah. I mean look I'm just reading the rules as

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: they're stated it does kind of seem like if you broke the mirror that the woman is just on the

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: other side of that might let her through somehow. I guess the idea is it would like destroy the portal

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_03]: through which she might be entering your world. Yeah but I would just leave. I don't know about

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: breaking the mirror. If it's not my home. Yeah that's true. Maybe I would just leave. It was like oh

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: but it was my house. I think I would have to go through the steps to make sure the house is clean. True.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_03]: All right well there's only two. Sorry there's two last ways this can go wrong. If you fail to

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_03]: maintain eye contact which I'm terrible at so this is what this would be mean. Yeah isn't there like a

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_01]: thing that's like if you want to fall in love. Yeah someone it's like maintain eye contact and like

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_01]: ask a bunch of like these questions and then at the end of it it's like true love or not.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I would never play that game because of like a fear of intimacy. We're greater than a fear of ghosts.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay sure. Fear of intimacy higher on the fear of tear than ghosts. Great good to know

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_03]: but I thought you were going to say I didn't know this love questions game. I thought just the

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_03]: the advice is that like when you're on dates to maintain as much eye contact as possible because

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_03]: it shows interest and it's a it's a a strength thing. It's like a no I don't go on dates.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Which was probably why I know but there's other things where it's like game. I don't know I didn't

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: read it once. It was something some article that was like your 67 questions that if you looked into

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_01]: the eyes of another person and like asked these questions by the end of it you'll be deeply in love

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: or hate each other I don't know I didn't I didn't get that far into it because I'm like I'm not doing

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: this we should do this. But that's but I just I'll look it up if I find that it would be in the show

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: okay I'm sure someone listening knows exactly I'm talking. Okay I've never I've never heard of this

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_03]: but I'm sure it's out there. Okay so we covered failing the entire eye contact which us and all of our

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: artistic listeners are probably going to fail at break them you immediately vacate the premises

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_03]: burn the card if lady spades declines to grant your wish break them you're below the candle burn

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the card and hope for the best. Wow that's a good like thing to teach people how to react to

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah. Throw a goddamn fin to this bitch once away. Yeah smash the mirror be like I'm fucking

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_01]: done with people and it was like oh man yeah just notice plenty of fish in the mirrors

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_03]: it's already getting insanely hot in this room not only recording this live we're recording this on

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_03]: the second hotest day of the year in a way I think. Yeah. The second is the hotest they've all been

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: a row yeah my Amazon Alexa just every single day was like you have an alert and I'm like what's

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: up I didn't order anything and it was like the national weather service says you're gonna die.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I walked into my new place that I moved into and the thermometer on the wall just said zero two

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_03]: which I think was 102 yeah they don't want to pay for that extra dude you don't

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: holy shit but it was that when I drove to physical therapy last week the rental car said it was

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_03]: 112. Oh my god yeah well we do this for you listener because if you have the AC on you'll hear

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_03]: the home and it might drive you crazy so we just need to drive at crazy. And drive at crazy so

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: we're doing this no AC no fan locked in a very small room. That's also why we don't do a video

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: component to this show because we would just be fucking slow ahead of you. Yeah all right so in

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_03]: all of these failed situations you are not to attempt the ritual again ever we aren't told why

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: but I assume if you do try again you won't live very long or you won't live long I have to find out

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody gets one everybody gets one but you don't know if it's like hey I went into a bathroom

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: with Chris and his wife and a couple friends and we're all gonna try and I'm leading it and I have

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: matches and I have the candle is that me burning my one chance or say everyone involves and

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that I need an idea of to go in alone. I don't think there is anyone going in with you. I am not

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: doing anything that's the whole idea. Does you think people play plenty Mary and groups? I honestly

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly thought that like sleep over parties it was like a bunch of boys or a bunch of girls

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: or mixed group like all went into the bathroom and tried to make it happen. No they send you in by

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: yourself it's a bullying thing. Oh no I thought this was a community that likes horror

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: are gonna come together to try and do fun because you do like light as a feather in a group. Yeah but

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_03]: that's different. Bloody Mary is well I mean maybe it's not a bullying thing but it's scary

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_03]: because you're by yourself that's the whole it's like seven minutes in heaven this is seven minutes

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: in hell yeah well we said at least seven minutes in heaven you're with somebody. Yeah also I feel like

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_03]: gross in middle school probably played this game and are like you know they take it very seriously

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_03]: they scare themselves boys in middle school the second in that bathroom they're looking at

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: porn on their phone. Yeah nothing we were. All right so if you open your eyes during the

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: summoning and everything is normal save for the mirror being empty or the absence of voices

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: laughter footsteps the ritual is failed there are no negative consequences for the ritual

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: failing in this manner however it's still a good idea to repeat the words lady spades disappear

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_03]: wipe the mirror clean blow the candle and turn on the lights burn the card at your suit as

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: convenience. But at that in that version it's it's it's all those things you do but just the like

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: like fucking sad Charlie about music plays you're just like lady lady spade disappear

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're like slowly wiping the lipstick away like yeah. And then sadly leaving the house you

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: broke into to try this. I mean what the fuck was that? I don't know he looked like

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: linus. You had a fucking blue blanket. Do not attempt to end the game between the statement of your

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_03]: wish and the woman's response she doesn't like being interrupted which most women don't. Oh wow

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_03]: uh it's rude and it happens all the time. I actually I it's a bad habit I've been trying to

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: break my writing partner uh is a woman and and she pointed out to me that like I because I know

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I interrupt people and I try not to do it but it is definitely like I think worse when men

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and try women because women get interrupted by men all the time so our fans say I interrupt you all

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03]: time. Not not in the live show because we have to be careful that we don't step over each other.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So far we're doing great job. We're doing a great job. I should note finally that lady spades

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: we are told has a habit of sticking around even if the ritual is a success it comes to the price.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Again what the price is is left to the imagination here maybe she just wants to be a friend maybe

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_03]: you want a friend maybe this is a meet-cute maybe it's a passion maybe there's a passionate murder

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: suicide in your future who knows. That's awesome. It's good to have plans. Life can be anything

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you make it. It's a Voxet Chocolate. Yeah poison the booby trap chocolates. The next mirror legend is

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_03]: called the three kings which I've got a card base. Yeah that's true it's true. For my money

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're to sleep over it's probably more entertaining to watch the movie three kings. I've

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: fucking movie even though that's the movie that Clooney fought David O'Rustle on. Yeah and also

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: some grizzly scenery and there's some grizzly stuff and they're like the bullet and the stomach stuff

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_01]: like Marky Mark getting the oil in his mouth. Yeah it's a great movie though I mean I don't know if you

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: guys haven't heard the story three kings is a 90s of retro 90s movie. He came out in 99 first

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_03]: golf war. Well it's about the first golf war yeah it came out in 99 and David O'Rustle directed it.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember it wasn't his first movie but he hadn't done I think it was maybe his biggest

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: movie to that point and David O'Rustle's like a notorious asshole and there's a story that I think

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_03]: George Clooney himself has told that David O'Rustle was screaming at crew members consistently

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_03]: like it was the thing that was happening time and time again and Clooney stepped in and was like

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_03]: come on man like you can't you can't treat people the people that way and I forget if Russell

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_03]: swung at him first or pushed him and then Clooney punched him or what but yeah they had a fist fight

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_01]: in the middle of the which they say that is the reason why when footage was leaked of him screaming

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_03]: it literally Tomlin oh my god yeah the fuck is that maybe not everything is awesome Jason Swordsman

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_03]: guy pairs I don't know dude a lot you know guy pairs I think is in it uh Jude law why can't

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I I hearthuck and be yes so I remember he I believe years later footage was was released

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean this is way before cancer culture and stuff like footage was released of him just being

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: monstrously Tomlin on that movie and they say they say Hollywood lore would have you believe

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that George Clooney is the one who got and like exposed that footage because he was still pissed from

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah so that's that I don't know Hollywood is crazy that's what it's crazy that's it's upsetting

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_03]: David Arustle you guys should watch that footage I mean everyone has a bad day sure but he I mean

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_03]: he uses the drops to see word on Lily Tomlin who seems like the sweetest woman in the world

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah um he ha yeah actually and I'm wrong looking at the castless here and uh guy pairs is not

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: a Jude law it's Jude law yeah where him and Naomi Watts are like you take your glasses off

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01]: they're glass between us or whatever like there's a lot of great lines on that like when

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Marky Mark and Jason Swordsman are like running out of the building and they have to like

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: sign in the beginning he's like oh sign you out just like really great moments like that but anyway

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_03]: we're not here to talk about David Arustle no we're here to talk about the mirror legend called three kings

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_03]: now this one three kings beast the one is a little bit more complicated than Bloody Mary and

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_03]: it also doesn't promise that any particular demon or spirit will be conjured and it's honestly I

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_03]: think it's creepier than that because well you'll see because you don't get a wish you'll see

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: well you don't get a wish but it just feels much more I would say I would say this is more the

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: the Ari Aster vibe uh mirror legend to the Wes Craven John Carpenter Bloody Mary you know it's a

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_03]: little bit more in your mind it's a little bit more it feels a little more sophisticated so here we go

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm reading here from the reddit post from the Necronomica just starts speaking in songs

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm reading here directly from the reddit post that that started at all and the post of course

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: is linked in the show notes here's what you're going to need to pull this ritual off a very large

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_03]: empty and quiet room preferably without windows if windows exist you need to be able to cover

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: them in ensure total darkness basements usually work well if they're roomy enough you need a pack

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: of candles though you'll only use one if all goes well and the lighter get a bucket of water and

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: a mug a fan three chairs in a alarm clock an active cell phone a small toy or deer object from your

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: childhood and last but not least two large mirrors and a loved one who's good at following rules

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and loves you enough to go along with all of them oh my god he doesn't need to be a roomy

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_03]: basement they're not wrong it does he need to be a roomy basement yeah I mean you need you need

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: some space for all that stuff so I wish at this moment that I would never actually want to

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: work an Amazon but if I work an Amazon in a way that I can see people's orders and if you just

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: saw like two mirrors of box of candles like all in someone's car and they bought it like I know what

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: they're doing yeah and then you have their address so you could probably go fuck with them or

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I got ya um you start set up for three kings around 11 p.m. at night place one chair in the center of

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_03]: the room facing north it's important that that chair in the center of the room is facing north

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm directionally in there's no way I get this right right this something oh yeah that's the

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Amazon card yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah one magnetic compass please place one chair

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_03]: facing north place the other two chairs exactly to the left and right facing your throne

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_03]: so the throne is the chair you put the center of the room the other two chairs

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_03]: or to the left is the right of it facing your throne the distance between your throne

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and that of your queen and fool which is the other two chairs should be about the length of your

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_03]: arms each side more or less place the two large mirrors on the queen and fool chairs to the

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_03]: right of you facing you and each other try your best to have them stand at a 90 degree angle

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: or else you may get more or less than three kings if you sit on your throne facing straight ahead

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_03]: north you should be able to perceive your own reflection in each of the two mirrors that actually

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_03]: having to turn your head nor your eyes to do so if you see your own reflection in the corner of

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: your eye just barely there then you've done it right I love it's the same kind of wording like

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_01]: you set up a video game where it's like okay lower the brightness until you can barely read

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the text yeah yeah yeah yeah you know this is how you play Call of Duty yep that's pretty

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: much what you're doing here just with mirrors in your basement and it's totally cool and normal

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_01]: don't worry not it hey have any family members who love me enough to listen to me who are interested

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_03]: in calibrating shit in the basement place the bucket of water and the mug in front of you just

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: barely out of reach place the fan behind you and turn it on don't set it to maximum power medium or

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_03]: low is usually enough leave it on turn off the lights leave the door open and go to your bedroom

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_03]: set the candles by the side of the bed next to a lighter your alarm clock and your cell phone

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_03]: which you should leave charging set your alarm clock for 3.30 a.m.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_03]: no thank god immediately I'm out yeah turn off the lights and sleep while holding your

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_03]: power object and get some rest when that alarm goes off as 3.30 a.m. turn it off but do not

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_03]: turn on the light you have exactly three minutes to light your candle grab your cell phone

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and make your way to the dark room to sit in your throne you should be seated by 3.33 a.m.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and don't forget your power object so I'm sleeping in the basement at this point there's no

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going down to flights of stairs at 3.30 in the morning.

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_03]: no lights on well you want it I don't know if you can sleep in the basement you probably shouldn't

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_03]: sleep in the room where this is happening but it would be great if you could sleep adjacent to

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: it somehow yeah check for potential red flags so for instance if your cell phone didn't charge

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: for whatever reason abort the mission if the alarm didn't go off exactly at 3.30 a.m.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: abort the mission if you find the dark room door closed remember you left it open abort the mission

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_03]: so if you're the loved one involved in this just close the door and everybody's going to get

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_03]: more sleep if the fan is turned off remember you left it on abort the mission side note

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: if you have to abort the mission due to any of the above also I don't know why they're calling

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_03]: it a mission you know we're not gonna go take out the head of ISIS yeah this is a seal team six

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_03]: experiment um if you have to abort the mission due to any of the above leave the house

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: you're loved one go to a hotel or something it says got the money to play these games so

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_03]: there's no need to run you have time to grab a jacket and your keys and whatnot but leave after

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: six a.m. the coach should be clear if all is going as planned you can proceed and take your throne

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_03]: so if the door is solo open the fan is still on your your alarm went off at the right time

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_03]: go ahead you sit on your throne do not look directly at either of the two mirrors beside you

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_03]: do not let the candle go out the fan is behind you you must protect the candle with your body

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_03]: which is standing in between there's a reason for this as you will soon see so you sit in your throne

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_03]: you look straight ahead at the darkness not at the candle not at the mirrors just straight ahead

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_03]: then this is again because I'm quoting here eagle-eyed readers surely noticed I didn't say

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_03]: during setup which chair was queen and which chair was full that's because it's your job to find out

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and from their point of view you are either there queen or they're full oh well hence three kings

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_03]: well and well so each mirror you is its own king with each other reflection serving as the queen of

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_03]: but there's only two mirrors down there right but so there's three of you total sure

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_03]: in each one of you theoretically is looking at the other two and you want things to the king yes

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I won't spoil what happens next okay thanks so bice to say you won't be alone and if you

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_03]: have questions you'll get answers sometimes in the form of new questions but hey that's the story

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_03]: humanity a just stay put and try not to move again do not look directly at the mirrors nor the

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_03]: candle just straight ahead trust me don't chicken out either you need to wait until 434 by 434

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_01]: it's an hour it's an hour from when this started yeah it's an unbelievable moment time stay awake

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in nothing presume is happened I'm just sitting here as a wall stopping wind from hitting a

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_01]: candle how long is this candle got burned for a fucking hour well I think you have the tall ones

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_03]: don't say crazy it's okay to tremble a little bit just try not to not fart don't burn not because

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_03]: it affects the ritual or anything it's just a pussy thing to do while in polite company it says that

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_03]: it says that not my one card ready get out of here yeah Jesus did I mention not to let the

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_03]: candle go out that's the fans for your protecting the candle with your body but if your body

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_03]: were to be suddenly moved then the fan would turn off the candle that's back up number one your

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_03]: loved one is back up number two at 434 here she has to come in the room and call your name if that

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_03]: won't work she has to call yourself on if that won't work she has the glass of water in the bucket

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_03]: she can't touch you though that's a newbie mistake back up number three is your item of power

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_03]: the toy or a locket or whatever object of strength you brought along for the ride it'll show you

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the way if she hits the fan I have a question yes so when it says if that won't work it means that the

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: person opens the door upstairs and is like hey Chris and if you don't respond they then call your cell phone

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you don't answer your cell phone they then go downstairs at the bucket of hot piss and shit

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_01]: important your head yeah okay this is a great way to shoot right to the top of the fear tier very

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_01]: quickly I thought you were my loved one I tried to do why do you even have this hot

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_03]: bucket of shit I've been making it for weeks so multiple backups they say you got to be like a

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_03]: boy scout if you do these things if you have asked it half asked it all the way so that it won't work

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_03]: worst you can do is take it seriously enough for it to work and not seriously enough to be prepared

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_01]: for the consequences okay I guess earlier it said I'm not going to spoil this for you do they never

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: tell you what happens at the end no you sit there for an hour and I guess the implication is that

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_03]: there will be some kind of conversation over the course of that hour between yourself the fool

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and the queen but at 430 no matter what's going on 434 excuse me yeah I'm already out I can't

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: use me as a guy I'm fucked up don't have edb your loved one you're gonna get dragged through the mirror

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and he's gonna be like fuck it six in the morning I fucking fells leave I was drunk

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_01]: the so that's kind of bullshit though it's kind of like I won't spoil it for you I want to know exactly

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: what I'm in for well yeah I mean I guess that's where it's probably so I would say Bravo this does

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: feel like a Gen Z legend to do this well like the quiet quit on the story they just gave up before

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_03]: was that an ending well I mean it's just it's it feels I mean I don't know millennials came

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_03]: up on Bloody Mary is very straightforward is very simple this is like a whole complicated it's

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_01]: like a TikTok dance and horror form or like for Gen Xers and millennials I think the only way to

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_01]: see that level of complication is to build the board game mouse trap yeah prizes now and we were like

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: holy shit can you believe this thing like it's just trying to get the guy to flip into that thing

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_03]: that's all we can do this is like these kids are so oversimulated in board they're moving mirrors

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and the basement and about them multiple people involved and fans you will have a conversation with

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Skibdi toy that or whatever if you do that Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi Skibdi

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_03]: um yeah man I don't know I mean I think it would be kind of fun to do this I wonder if we could

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_03]: do like if we could do it at the same time and have like six kings or something I'm not doing this

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_03]: with the right arrangement of mirrors you could have infinite kings that's true, infinity kings I don't

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_03]: which sounds like a bad I mean if this does conjure anything strange and infinity kings is

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_03]: probably the last thing you want yeah it's the last thing you want it's not enough candles in the world

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: no um but yeah I mean I don't know this but I the reason I said this is kind of like the

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_03]: R.E.A.S.R. when is it does seem much more it's much more complex it's kind of nuanced the whole like

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_03]: must be facing north and like the idea that you're gonna stare into the darkness and something's

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_03]: gonna happen but you're not sure what I don't know it does seem it seems like you could

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: experience it in a way that feels very like Blany Mary is very black and white when we were

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_03]: growing up if you played Blany Mary she either showed up or she did it it was pretty you might

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_03]: freak yourself out but she either showed up or she didn't yeah with this the whole idea is like

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_03]: who knows what might happen and as we will get to in a little bit if you're sitting in the dark looking

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_03]: in two mirrors out of the corner of your eyes something freaky is gonna happen it's going your

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_01]: brains knock at the same brains that we've established in like a hat man like just have snakes

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_01]: in there like everyone's like given the best you know in the worst of opportunity slash best

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_01]: of opportunity is like uh so much of society a percentage of society will just see snakes

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah there's no version which your brain's not gonna be like I mean if we're down here I'm

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_03]: as a fucking mess yeah yeah so I think that could be a fun one but let's do one more this one's

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_03]: called the devil came okay a little bit more straight forward than these last two this one was

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_03]: on the creepypasta week wiki wiki oh that's your greatest like creepypasta weekly like it's

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_03]: like a time magazine this is on creepypasta wiki it's short it's to the point and I think

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_03]: it might end up being the most potent of the three so I'm reading from the wiki here at 12 17

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_03]: A.M. on the head so again staying up well after Edna have fallen asleep at 12 17 A.M.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_03]: on any given night arises the opportunity to awaken and alternate soul the most common way

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_03]: of viewing them through a mirror it is through said media that the process must take place

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: okay it's already contradicting itself here it says begin exactly at midnight 12 17 just said 12 17

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_03]: so I'm not sure what's going on here but oh wait I see okay hold on I forgot so it's you

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: it well and you want to be my trusted game no no no no listen there it's you'll see in a second

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_03]: so it is at 12 17 A.M this can happen but you have to start the process exactly at midnight

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_03]: the whole thing takes time 17 minutes yeah so begin exactly at midnight by no light but that

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_03]: of a single candle stand before the selected mirror for 10 minutes you must concentrate in silence

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_03]: focused entirely on your reflection do not look away from the eyes for it will be interpreted as

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_03]: weakness and you will be overcome after 10 minutes of past you must draw blood to smear an

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_03]: across the eyes of your reflection how do you stuff we had fucking mayballeen products or whatever

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_03]: now yeah you gotta use blood you have to draw line across your reflections eyes to blind it

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and you will watch as your own features begin to warp in the mirror slowly gradually they will

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_03]: mutate into a frightening creature beyond the comprehension of those who have not experienced it

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_03]: you must not look away to the entirety of the change soon the writing movements of the image will

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_03]: cease by now an echoing in human sound will resound all around you the creature will begin to

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_03]: ease toward the mirror's glass you must keep watching as it approaches if you do not extinguish

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_03]: the candle at exactly 12 17 the creature will escape be warned should you succeed through any

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_03]: polished surface be it mirror wood window or tron poster so that's it your reflection will always

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: be watching so best case scenario the devil's game just awakens an aggressive soul that

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_01]: watches you always I don't love that but it's also they say that like my grandpa's dead but you know

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_01]: he watched me score that touchdown so we're always being there's always the threat of someone watching

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you from the afterlife I guess but he just watched Albert Brooks documentary where he talks about

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_01]: mortality and stuff it's where he's been bringing his brother dying up in it at all but he's

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that just happened recently but he brought up a good point because they're talking about defending

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_01]: your life and stuff and he was like I don't know what's after we die but I do hope I don't get

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_01]: to look back like he was being interviewed by who's callriner son rob writer yeah he's being

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_01]: a bit rob writer he's like I just don't I just know I don't want to be wherever I'm going

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and have the ability to be like rob's doing well still like so he doesn't mind looking back

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_01]: on his own life he just doesn't want to be able to see the living I think it would be too hard for

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_03]: him I was gonna say I'm pretty sure I mean it does seem like if there is one biological thing

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: that happens when we die it does seem like looking back on your own life is pretty baked in

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah I don't need to see that either but I very much am in agreement with him of just like

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_01]: God how jealous you would be if you're stuck in wherever you're going you know right

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_03]: although wherever you're going cool no no and whenever we're going we're gonna be on the other

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_03]: side of mirrors it sounds like yeah waiting for someone to wake up at 12 17 in the morning

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and knock on the window which must have been a more interesting game in an age of like having

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_01]: a plug in and alarm clock or yeah we're having a watch or a pocket watch we're now it's like

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah your iPhones and it's probably the right fucking time like it's set to atomic time yeah

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_03]: well wonder if maybe that's why some of these have grown more complicated as the gen you know

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: for newer generations because all of the all of the mechanical mysterious tangible elements that

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: used to be fallible or part of the experience are no longer that year stopped in the clock

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_03]: the details the things that you need are always going to function perfectly so you need a more

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: complicated legend to squeeze any creepiness out of it do you remember you can like call the bank

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you know it's tell you the time and weather no yeah a lot of places yeah it was like you you would

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_01]: call and it would get you would call this number and it would be it would be like the time at the

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_01]: home is 1114 p.m. and you know like at that moment it's 1114 whatever and in the weather is

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_01]: don't go outside but like yeah that's that's that's just interesting if like that's

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the level of shit like in these games you're like and you have to call the bank and you have to find

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that a one for you and you gotta open a safety deposit box and you gotta like bleed into it

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah we should start a game like this that starts with wake up it exactly 4 a.m. Venmo

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris and Ed $100 oh yeah we should also we saw in the near mirror for a private podcast

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_01]: we should um gosh that we're we're on cameo but it's exclusively in mirror form

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be great if someone did write one of these things for you know people to do

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to play and then like halfway through you realize that it's just making you a better person it's like

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_01]: okay wake up at 6 make your bed brush your teeth check on the job applications you put in

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_01]: love of lie and it's like at the end you maybe get a wish or something but it's like

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but if you don't get a wish isn't it feel great to get home and go do a made bed

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Jordan Peterson's bedtime stories I would never don't bring him up so some in him and

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you're a

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_03]: so I haven't tried I haven't tried any of these games I especially the devil game I'm not super

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_03]: psyched on the idea of awakening my alternate soul it's not I need him my two games two of those

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_01]: games had alternate souls like the three kings or other versions of you sure in the devil game was

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_03]: like a zombified ash like a version of you but the zombified ash in the devil's game I actually

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_03]: have reason to believe will almost certainly work for everyone at least in a way because according

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_03]: to a 2010 study by Italian neuroscientist Giovanni Caputo sure love another Grisball in the mix

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_03]: here if you stare at your own reflection in a dimly lit room your eyes will become meatballs

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_03]: yummy looking dance parties if you stare your own reflection in a dimly lit room for about

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_03]: 10 minutes you'll start to hallucinate Caputo's research published in the journal perception found

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that participants reported 66% of the time they reported huge deformations of their own face

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_03]: 28% saw an unknown person in 48% saw fantastical and monstrous beings I'm not at all surprised by

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_01]: these numbers because when I was a kid I would like get scared to this day I hate like thunder

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_01]: lightning and it's why I live in here and it doesn't happen but I would get scared and I was like

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_01]: well could I sleep with you mom and dad and I was like going there bad and then I would always

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_01]: regret it because I would still be kind of up another third adults they're like it's not scary I'm

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_01]: going back to bed now I always like fixate on my mom or my dad's face but it was in like a dark room

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and without fail all that face with turn into like a Frankenstein or a demon it would always just

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: like morph and it's something that scared me more yeah it's bizarre and I mean I don't know

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: if we can tell people to try this can we tell people to try this no I think uh Sashan legends

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_01]: would say we shouldn't okay don't try this our overlord our fear of litigation overlords

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_01]: say that we aren't whatever you guys are going to do you guys you do you but we're going to do

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: the top of the fear tier for Scott and Forest is getting a phone call from someone whose name

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: ends in s-squire so don't try this instead and just think about what it must be like

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: pretty weird huh and it raises the question though why why if you stare into a mirror at your own

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: face or if you stare at your parents face or anyone's face in the dark why do you see monsters

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: psychology today notes quote the answer lies in our brains pension for selective processing

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_03]: in simple terms our brains can only handle so much information at one time right now as you're

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: being this article or listening to this podcast you probably aren't noticing the feeling of your

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: clothes against your skin the pattern of your breath or any of the delicate sounds around you

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: your brain simply turns a blind eye to these various stimulated better focus on what it deems

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: most important right now these words our sense of sight works no differently when faced with an

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: abundance of visual stimulation only some of which are considered relevant our brains will

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_03]: out the non-relevant parts like our nose like your nose possibly your own eyes your ears

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: whatever it says we don't need right now this phenomenon is termed the troxler effect

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: discovered in 1804 by a physician in philosopher with a wild name economics troxler oh my god

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: he was also just a raptor in a lab go he sounds like a guy who did most of his work out of an

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_03]: realized many of the optical illusions you find on the internet a staring at a red dot in the middle

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: of a circle for long enough suddenly the outside of the circle fades away and disappears

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and you just see the dot it's because your brain has deemed the outer edges irrelevant and

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: his lesson it's processing burden by simply fading it out of our perceptual domain the article

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_03]: continues should want to let to gaze at a mirror into their own eyes for a significant period

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_03]: of time it's possible that other areas of the face might begin to dissipate and blend into the mirror

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_03]: your face can suddenly look terrifying when for example your forehead starts to fade away or

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_03]: your cheeks morph into one large brooding mouth in time your entire face can become distorted and transformed

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_03]: into this terrifyingly mangled monstrosity worse our brains like to fill in things they cannot recognize

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: with things they can recognize never mind if those things are scary so your in comprehensively

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_03]: distorted face might morph into a monster you once saw on television locked deep within the synaptic

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_03]: catacombs of memory so there you go some people theorize the troxler effect is one of the

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: explanations for why so many cultures have myths and legends about monsters lurking in mirrors and

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: reflections and maybe in their parents wow wow an inclusius trox or whatever his name is what

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: ignats troxler god i mean he must have been exhausting to be at a party with but no

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: he's like oh right coming here stare at this thing let it fade out look in some of scary monster

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you're gonna scare monster but if you ask these 66 questions you'll be a love or whatever who invited

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: troxler it's fine because we also invited the love guys so we'll talk all night about this

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_03]: the first man made mirrors were pieces of polished obsidian a naturally occurring volcanic glass

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: the oldest known manufactured mirror was found in Anatolia which is modern day turkey

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and it dates to around 6000 BC well before that it was just obsidian and I guess like your

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: reflection in a pond yeah pretty much i mean it must have been this is where you start to understand

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: where some of these legends would come from because can you imagine it's scary enough because i've

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_03]: done the mirror thing like we look look at yourself in the mirror for a long time and it is its

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_03]: awe i mean i've never like runaway screaming or anything but it's it's uncomfortable i can

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: imagine 6000 BC staring into something and seeing your face mutate before there was anything

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: else to do really you know like yeah hunting you're looking at the sky you're hoping that you

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_03]: don't freeze to death and you look into a you know you get fascinated by a reflection because

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_03]: it's like a screen almost projecting stuff back at you and you're looking into it for too long

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you turned to a monster like also a majority of your day is candlelight yeah that's it

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you only have sunlight for however long and then the rest of it's like hey what can you give

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: me a light that is wildly uh it's organic so it's wildly like imperfect and it's in its sustained

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: how much it throws light yeah so it's like you're looking yourself as it like whips around the

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: light and like there's dark and shadow and it moves quite literally and so you have to just be

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: so crazy to i don't know i'm sure it happens like the first TV set like oh you know everybody

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: the johnson's got a TV set like they're the first people in town we should go over there and watch

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: television do you think someone was like we gotta get to who never's castle to see her got

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah go to the irgs house it's the irgs castle your reka's castle with you're stuck in

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: sound like a far side comic no but for real though like you'd have to go to like your reka's

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_01]: castle and be like you gotta come check out this mirror i got like how'd you get a mirror it must

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: cost you 10 billion shillings or whatever and it was like yeah it's pretty wild and we're like

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: this candle we're gonna you know just looking each other all night you know where i bet it happened

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot probably is like as the day was ending if anyone ever was relaxing by a lake or upon

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: or something and kind of contemplating their own reflection as the ambient light goes down

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and you're looking at yourself for a while i bet you had some people see some shit right back

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: you know because of water ripples yeah and also like unlike a mirror fish can jump out and scare

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: you and i do like i don't know also it's gotta be a bummer people just lie in the old

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: time me like no you're super handsome prince the most handsome prince in town and he's like oh

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah everyone likes me so handsome and then then you get a mirror and you're like i'm fucking ugly

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: dude this sucks yeah this is i mean and based on paintings i mean i guess we don't have any real

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_03]: sense of what people look like 6,000 BC but a lot of guys in girls and paintings from even

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: like the middle ages it's like oh that was the like prince charming yeah who was who was

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: i think i've got the hapsburgs like you love hapsburgs are on their own special case but

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah they have the the hapsburg jaw the inbred yeah what the hell are the kids today they're

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: doing all the maxing something maxing oh the looks maxing like there were some people in

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: dire need of look maxing yeah there was people in dire need of uh fucking people not in

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_03]: their bloodline yeah we have that to this day so yeah i mean i suspect for all of these reasons

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: is why mirrors have played such a significant role in magical and occult practices across

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_03]: cultures and throughout history according to one of the websites that we return to time and time

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: again on this show ancient origins dot net quote the pre-save ancient Egypt used to practice

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_03]: spiritual purification rituals with the help of mirrors since it was believed that the mirror

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: reflected the spirit of the individual through special techniques and initiate could end up

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: seeing his degree of spiritual evolution or decadence in this way a sinner would see in the mirror

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: a distorted personal image and he would then move on to the spiritual cleansing phase until

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: he would only see himself reflected in the mirror oh interesting it's like your problems are a self

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: correcting issue if you just use this mirror because it'll reveal to you what needs to be done

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_01]: it's also very Harry Potter right they're like when in there and everyone saw what they wanted

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to see in that reflection of like either that water that mirror would have you well i think it's

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: super interesting because it speaks to the psychological implications of reflections as much as it

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: does the supernatural because even if you don't believe that the mirror is showing you like

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: independently sentient spirit version of yourself it's certainly a surface in which we can ponder

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: ourselves and our successes and failures and sins i don't see successes i mean knowing not even for

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: me i'm saying like but knowing just humanity no one's ever looked in a mirror and been like

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: this rules i think ever you don't even like i think most people look in a mirror and they're like

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: fuck i hate under my eyes i wish i i wondered my youth go like just so much stuff i feel like you do

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_01]: find the worst in yourself people i think are naturally defeatist yeah they are not so i don't

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: think you're going to a mirror and and finding like i remember the way out of this feeling i don't

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_03]: remember why i started doing this but i i would say in like i's probably about 13 or 14 there was

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_03]: a fever she master beating in the mirror no no thank god no no i was like 13 or 14

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_03]: i started doing this thing where i would wake up in the morning and like you know i was bullied a

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_03]: lot and and i was very uncomfortable with myself um and i started doing this thing where i would

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_03]: wake up in the morning and i would look in the mirror before i went to school because i had like

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: a bureau mirror or a dresser mirror in my room and i would look at myself and i would just like

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_03]: put myself down so hard like pick myself apart be like your ears are too big you're like lip hair

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: gross because i was growing in a moustache but terribly like you're just like so weird and gross

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: and awkward and i hated myself and then i would come home at the end of the day and before i

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: went to bed i would look in the mirror again and i would like talk myself up and i would be like

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: oh my god dude you're great like don't worry about it you're cool you can do this and then i

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: would do that i mean i don't know if i did it like every day but i remember doing it a lot and

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_03]: like i just like tell you right now it doesn't sound great but it well it was better than

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe the positive reinforcement at the end helps yeah it was better than hating myself all day

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_03]: you know like there was always a period of time where i would give myself like a pep talk and then

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_03]: i would talk myself back down and i don't really know where i'm going with this other than to say i

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: i kind of feel like that's what the pre-saving you just were doing like yeah looking at the

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_03]: cells and being like these are all the things you need to fix about yourself and then i will say when

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: was younger not that young i mean i did it pretty late but i remember i would like

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: redo interactions i had during that day in the mirror yeah to be like how did i come across

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to these people earlier um and i again there's gonna be so many people writing in this episode

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: of being like you both need professional help no one else does this shit but i remember

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah like in like probably high school age you know i would always do like a quick snippet to myself

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: like how did that come across when i went to that and talk to those people yeah so yeah as i'm

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: saying the mirror is not a great place um sounds like we both used mirrors in the way that other

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: people use journals well like you could just fill in your journal it today everyone was mean

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah probably my big ears yeah i i mean i think in the context of the you know scary stories

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_03]: built around mirrors i think the thing that's really interesting about them is that it almost doesn't

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_03]: matter what you believe that you're looking out when you gaze at yourself it's going to provoke

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: a certain amount of self reflection whether you think you're i mean literally yeah literally but

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: it's but it's you know whether you think you're looking at an alternate world version of yourself

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_03]: or if you know that it's just the light bouncing back in your eyes but it is also bullshit because

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: i feel like the mirror people have not gotten a room with the camera people because i never look

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: sane in the mirror as i do and i see a picture of myself at a party and i'm like she's just what

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: uh god i thought i was mean to the guy in the mirror the the camera people are going like do me

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_03]: extra dirty yeah well you look when when you look yourself in a mirror you're looking at yourself

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_03]: at eye level once you start moving that camera especially a little bit lower it's no good but

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like that with uh you hate your voice in the podcast but i'm sure when you talk you're like

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: how does that it that's what i sound like so the camera and the microphone are potentially

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: revealing how other people see you in the mirror just how you see yourself which is i guess

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: also positive because you're like fuck even if i mean to myself in the mirror like i always feel

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: like i look in that mirror before i go out and you're like this is best you can do add that's fine

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know like but i'm i'm going out aren't i like i looked at the mirror and i've said

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: this will do and then later in the evening you know the next day you get the pictures you're like

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: never of left that that did not do uh the only i'm saying is it's that like yeah like mirrors

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and microphone is just weird if you just take two seconds to think about perception yeah and it's

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: no one's ever been like hey hey hey come take a look at this mirror with me how do i look

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: you're just like hey how do i look in the person says that tie is great yeah you would never be

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: like hey balance us off a reflection of me to get what do you think of the guy in the mirror

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: but you only have the guy in the mirror because you can't fucking see yourself right and so

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: listen we're not on drugs this is just is the heat literally the heat is killing us and i'm thinking

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_03]: out loud but thanks a lot of interesting things yeah i mean i think that's i think

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_03]: part of where i'm going with this too is that i think i think all of this explains by so many mirror

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_03]: rituals are designed to ask for things or wish for things or receive divine you know information because

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: i swear we're not on drugs we're ultimately asking ourselves for these things yeah yeah it does

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: be because i'm logical in that way like we're like say money i'm therapy god knows we have

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: just ask the mirror i mean even in um is it fuck it's snow white or whatever whichever one is like

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: mirror mirror on the wall who's the ferris stuff like again we don't there could be no witch there

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know you mean like you do still maybe get the same error and so if you didn't think

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_01]: you were the ferris to still be like god just that bitch across town is the ferris right or if

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: you're a narcissist you'd be like on the ferris yeah um a lot of this ties into i think the

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_03]: practice of cetrop to mancy which is divination using a mirror there is a whole astonishing

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: legends episode on this so no it's the good shit yeah if you want the masters class go listen to

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: scotton forest they also probably pronounce it correctly well they've probably done many

[01:14:54] [SPEAKER_01]: things that end with mancy yeah yeah can't stop to pop a troppo list sort of a Greek word

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_03]: right to say the cetrop tromancy 101 explanation is that it was a popular form of fortune telling

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_03]: an ancient Greece and Rome the idea was that by gazing into a mirror under certain conditions i

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_03]: bet low light conditions you can see visions of the future or communicate with spirits according to

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: practice as follows before the temple of seri said patrists there was a fountain separated from

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: the temple by a wall and there was an oracle very truthful not for all events but for the sick only

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: the sick person let down a mirror suspended by a thread till it's based touch the surface of

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_03]: the water having first prayed to the goddess and offered incense then looking into the mirror he saw

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_03]: the pre-sage of death or recovery according is the face appeared fresh in healthy or of a

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: ghastly aspect so the idea was you'd offer the goddess is everything dip this mirror into the

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_03]: water then you'd be able to see if you're gonna live or die or survive the sickest which has

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_01]: come up several times which is water is so often a conduit to the other side through the veil

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and so it's like I've come to this shrine to this goddess i need to speak to you i got to get this

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: water so that the goddess can travel through that into the mirror just water is so present in

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: so many things we talk about but also i would like to do mine at fucking noon like i wanted

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: to be bright beautiful light because obviously as you've established like dark light you know

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_03]: it's easier to play tricks i feel like more people probably saw the ghastly palor

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: at noon no in the dark cave forever in the temple of seris like i from in my mind it was outside

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: this fountain but you're saying is inside well you just a separate of i was a fountain

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_03]: separating from the temple by a wall that could be outside that's sure i guess it could be outside

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_03]: but it was basically this this whole practice is a precursor to what we call sqrying in modern

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_03]: witchcraft which is using a reflective surface like a crystal ball or mirror to observe future events

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and i wanted to touch on one of the most famous practitioners of sqrying a man named john d

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_03]: who you might remember last we heard from him he was creating super spy humunkily and our

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: episode on humunkily so he's been he was from around time ago yeah yeah you're a long time ago

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_03]: okay so it's not misclio no no john d was one of i think queen uh Elizabeth's sorcerers

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and he was we talk about him in the humunkily episode i'm sure i call the mishraul within

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_03]: i don't i don't i his name rang a bell and i went back and look through the episodes

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and he was the guy who had created humunkily to go spy on the queen oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_03]: he's back because d's creation of humunkily d's nuts d's nuts um his creation of

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_03]: humunkily got another job no his creation of humunkily is but a footnote in a much wilder history

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_03]: i want to read a part of an article about john d from thought company because this is

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_03]: he's one of those people that could be nominated for most interesting man in the world

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_03]: john d entered Cambridge's St. John's College at age 15 he went on to become one of the first

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: fellows the newly formed Trinity College where his skills in stage effects i've been of the library

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: training college is amazing have you been to the stage shows because john d invented them no no i'm

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: starting to rub no it's a treat like a woman but uh but no i i have been to Trinity College and

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: it's got like a magnificent library what did you go for i was just there with four today we were

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: in iron this is an island right yeah so we were just there and um just had time and Trinity

[01:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: College was there and i heard that they have this like cool library with a bunch of like buss

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_01]: a famous thinkers throughout history or whatever and i was like oh check it out john d was probably

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: in there yeah he probably had a bus i didn't know him then i didn't know his work with the monkey

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: eye and uh but it also has like a bunch of really like incredibly old manuscripts in there where

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: you like can look at a book that was written in like golden and gold and stuff from like fucking

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: i didn't give you a yeah what one the second century i don't know yeah yeah yeah well this is

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_03]: one of the he gets to say john's college at 15 he becomes one of the first fellows at Trinity

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_03]: where his skills in stage effects of all things earned him notoriety is a theatrical conjurer

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: so he was he was basically like an effects man wow it's a he's fucking uh he's Tom Savini

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: no i was gonna say he's um he's mysterious inspired man yeah he's got these humunki like working

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_03]: always levers behind the stage so there is probably some john d in mysterious uh in particular

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_03]: john d's work on a Greek drama a production of aristophans who we also talk about who wrote

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that ridiculous play that we had to read from yeah fuck that actually this i don't know if this

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_03]: was the same player not but a production of peace written by aristophans left audience members

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: marveling at his abilities when they saw the giant beetle he'd created the beetle descended

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: from an upper level down to the stage seemingly lowering itself from the sky after leaving Trinity

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_03]: detraveled around Europe studying with renowned mathematicians and cartographers and by the time

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_03]: we returned to England he'd amassed an impressive personal collection of astronomy tools

[01:20:26] [SPEAKER_03]: map making devices and mathematical instruments he also began studying metaphysics astrology

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and alchemy in 1553 he was arrested in charge with casting the horoscope of queen marry tutor

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_03]: which was considered treason oh so like reading someone's horoscope we're trying to predict

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: the future of the queen i guess was considered yeah because he might see in assassination in

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_03]: her future yeah well i guess whatever he read must not have come out well or she didn't like it

[01:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: because if it was great i doubt he would have been arrested maybe great after like we're here

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: we have a warrant i don't think i was like that back then but it was like we have a warrant for your

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: rest and then he just like throws a smoke bomb and like a beetle lowers from the ceiling and

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: he like goes out of window d was arrested and accused of attempting to kill queen marry was sorcery

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_03]: he was imprisoned in Hampton court in 1553 the reason behind his imprisonment may have been a

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_03]: horoscope that he cast for Elizabeth marries sister and aristothron here we go the horoscope was to

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_03]: retain when marry would die the answer i imagine was soon and which is why he was arrested for

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_03]: trying to kill her yeah he was released in 1555 after being set free and re-arrested on charges

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_03]: of heresy and then in 1556 queen marry gave him a full pardon when Elizabeth ascended to the throne

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: three years later d was responsible for selecting the most auspicious time and date for her coronation

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_01]: became her trusted advisor wow imagine just like do convicted criminals have as good a life any

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_01]: more where it's like oh yeah i was in jail for there's a long what gaps in your resume john but

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_03]: it was that again this would be like if tom saveney at some point like convinced George Bush to

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_03]: like put him in his cabinet or something and then got arrested for making too spooky of a makeup

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: factor something and scaring him and then thinking that a dick chanie would be president

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and he would descend even higher or something yeah or actually you know what now the better way

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_03]: to say that is a imaginative dick chanie had started to make it as a makeup artist i think

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_03]: that's maybe okay sure anyway during the years that john de advised queen Elizabeth he served in

[01:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: a number of roles he spent many years studying alchemy which is the practice of turning base

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_03]: metals into gold in particular he was intrigued by the legend of the philosopher's stone the magic bullet

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: of the golden age valkymy and a secret component that could convert lead or mercury into gold

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: once discovered it was believed it could be used to bring about long life and perhaps even immortality

[01:23:09] [SPEAKER_03]: and then there's this from live science dot com though d was a scientist and mathematician his interest

[01:23:16] [SPEAKER_03]: also swung toward the magical and mystical he owned many objects related to astrology divination alchemy

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and the exploration of demonic magic de claim that one of these objects a purple crystal on a chain

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_03]: was given to him by the archangel uriel along with instructions for making a philosopher's stone

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: which is the mythical alchemical marble that promised the gift to be turned alive in the ability

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: to turn base metals into gold the also possessed a quad glass c.o.u.d.e. quad glass a black glass

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_03]: mirror kept in a shark skin case which is fucking badass also man sounds like something he if

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_03]: he lived in the present day he would have done a lot of cocaine off of yeah the real

[01:24:04] [SPEAKER_03]: friends you got that shark skin around then that case yeah john you have a really long pinky nail

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_03]: he used the claw glass for quote peering into the future and according to others he used it for

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_03]: communicating with ghosts, angels and demons what's really cool is that you can see this mirror on

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: display the British museum in London or if you google a photo of it we still have it it still exists

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: it's polished on both sides almost perfectly circular it measures about 7.2 inches in diameter

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and a half inch thick in ways about 30 ounces do you think he's the first guy to be

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: like we should cut up cocaine on mirrors maybe he probably was his like coke mirror this guy was

[01:24:44] [SPEAKER_03]: into everything yeah a perforated square tab at the top of the mirror measures about 1.3 inches

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: long and may have served as a handle it is also strikingly deep deep black it's like staring into

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_03]: a void more than it is staring into a mirror it's impressive and strange looking and for a long time

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_03]: the big question was where the hell john de get this thing because it seems like the sort of

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_03]: object he would have claimed you're real cave him or the devil forged for him and the bowels of

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: hell but there's actually no record of demaking any claims of where this thing came from that didn't

[01:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: stop people from wondering and in 2022 we got some answers a geochemical analysis done using a

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_03]: portable x-ray fluorescent scanner enabled researchers to link the mirrors particular

[01:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: obsidian to patchuka mexico which was a popular source of obsidian for the Aztec people that's

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_03]: so far from ancient Greece well no this guy wasn't in ancient Greece this guy was was medieval London

[01:25:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that's so far from mexico yeah yeah but not so far that you couldn't go over it and slave

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_03]: some people and bring their mirrors back copy that um Aztecs use obsidian from additional purposes

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and viewed as reflective surface as a shield against bad spirits the volcanic glass obsidian was

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_03]: also associated with death the underworld and capturing the image and soul of a person the Aztec

[01:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: god to scat lapoca or smoking mirror is frequently depicted wearing mirrors that allow him to see

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: humans thoughts and actions in any case this finding that they were able to detect through this

[01:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: eye-tech reading that they did indicated that the artifact was in fact Aztec and not a copy

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_03]: made from european obsidian indeed likely acquired the mirror after it was brought to Europe

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_03]: from mexico which is not surprising at all i don't know you know i feel like the brits have a long

[01:26:40] [SPEAKER_03]: history of taking things like they have a real give me that at you yeah they really do you know

[01:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean the brits did it here yeah and then they became americans but yeah like there's a

[01:26:52] [SPEAKER_03]: now yeah anyway i wanted to end this episode on real life mirror phobias because after hearing

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_03]: all of these stories myths and legends it's no wonder that some people have a fear of mirrors

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_03]: but there is a much more human side to that fear as well one that's gotten nothing to do with

[01:27:11] [SPEAKER_03]: contacting the dead or stealing treasured artifacts from cultures that you see yourself as more advanced

[01:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: even though you use mirrors to do basically the exact same non-scientific things that they do

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: some people have an actual phobia of mirrors it's called spectrophobia which is a type of anxiety

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_03]: disorder classified as a specific phobia pertaining to mirrors and or the fear of what may be reflected

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: in them individuals with spectrophobia may be extremely fearful of their own reflection

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_03]: of the mirror itself or of ghost appearing in mirrors what's interesting too is that this is one of

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_03]: two specific phobias associated with mirrors and it does seem to be that there's some overlap

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: but while people with spectrophobia are afraid of what they might see in the mirror their

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_03]: condition is considered different than isoptraphobia which is the fear of one's reflection

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_03]: in the case of spectrophobia some definitions include the fear of one's own reflection other

[01:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: definitions exclude that because that's probably a totally different phobia well that's what it is

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that's a who me phobia yeah in any case according to an article on e-counseling.com people with

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: spectrophobia will avoid mirrors and other reflective objects at all costs this condition may

[01:28:28] [SPEAKER_03]: unsurprisingly negatively impact their social lives one can avoid seeing mirrors in their own home

[01:28:35] [SPEAKER_03]: but once you're out you have to go through extreme tactics to avoid seeing one these people may

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_03]: experience symptoms simply upon the mention of a mirror oh wow some will not use any items made of

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_03]: glass out of fear they might see something reflected off that item when they find themselves in a room

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: with a mirror or they see what appears like a reflection from a mirror they will experience symptoms

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_03]: of anxiety like sweating shortness of breath dizziness increased heart rate upset stomach irritability

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and fatigue all that's a top line life all of which are things i think we're feeling in this room right now

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah we're dying we're fucking dying but at least there are no mirrors in here there's no reflection

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: so we can't see just how wet we are I mean I can see what you are you see what I am we are drenched

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_03]: but we're we're getting to the end of this episode because I didn't want it so so spectrophobia

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and i can't see the end of the episode just to be the sound of our two bodies slumping over

[01:29:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and then like and a dragging our bodies out of the room I wanted to try to find a first person account

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: of spectrophobia or a softophobia because it is very rare and it seems almost like um not

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: not made up but there's not a lot like I wanted to read a first person interview with somebody who's

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_03]: like i experienced this and the question is this is not a joke this is a person we

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: realistically couldn't even interview over zoom because they would see their own reflection

[01:30:00] [SPEAKER_01]: through them through the yeah I mean it's not again their reflection but it's a digital version

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_03]: of a mirror basically so i did find an article about a man living with this phobia and it's

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: basically as terrible as it sounds uh i'm reading here from Metro UK headline man who hasn't looked

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_03]: at his reflection in months opens up about a phobia of mirrors Steven Gillat 40 lives with a phobia

[01:30:24] [SPEAKER_03]: of using mirrors the debilitating fears started four years ago around the same time he had a

[01:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: little breakdown oh wow late state mirror fear yeah possibly connected to him having a

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: mental breakdown it doesn't go into detail about why he had a mental breakdown but the article says

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_03]: it's not essentially the mirror he's afraid of it's his own reflection so this would be categorized

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_03]: by some as isoprophobia and not spectrophobia i sawprophobia sounds like it really could

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_01]: be born of somebody's games we talked about earlier we're like depending on how those when

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you might now think like my reflection these other two kings is all out to kill get me like

[01:31:04] [SPEAKER_01]: like it's crazy that no one else here knows that don't you look at the bucket here or

[01:31:08] [SPEAKER_01]: do because they are kings there are kings and they're coming and it's like it's like yeah

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_01]: they because he that could have been the result like the breakdown could have been a result of like

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't blow the candle up fast enough and now he's like just avoiding his reflection and so

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: because it is a pretty late in life to all of a sudden have a phobia well this says Steven will go

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: months without peering in a mirror because he cannot bear to look at his face to

[01:31:32] [SPEAKER_03]: talk and preach in the quiet room this doesn't just affect him when he's getting ready in the morning

[01:31:37] [SPEAKER_03]: if Steven goes to get his haircut he will keep his eyes shut throughout and I will say there's

[01:31:42] [SPEAKER_03]: photos of Steven in the article one taken of him looking into a rearview mirror which makes me

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_03]: question how afraid of mirror as he is and how much he wanted to get paid to rewritten about

[01:31:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that you're doing this to be a star don't worry about it but I will say Steven if you're hearing

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_03]: this you're a totally good looking guy your hair looks fine like open your eyes man it's all

[01:32:05] [SPEAKER_03]: good like he's shockingly well put together for a guy who doesn't I thought the pictures

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_03]: were going to be a like a wild man he fell down to his ass like long yellow tea you look

[01:32:16] [SPEAKER_03]: like a regular guy shit and walking past large windows when shopping is a nightmare as all

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_03]: large reflective surfaces make him feel uncomfortable Steven tells Metro dot code dot UK quote

[01:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I rarely use a mirror to do my hair it's short so I just leave it how it is or put some wax on my hands

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and just rub them all over my head that I think they call like hair gel wax there they call

[01:32:40] [SPEAKER_03]: like Paul made wax no I'm having it the idea of just not looking in a mirror just like rubbing

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_01]: wax and gel all okay or it's the wax he used from the fucking candles looking to the mirror

[01:32:51] [SPEAKER_03]: he says I really know what I look like when I go out I just get dressed and ask my wife or my

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: oldest daughter they're both honest with me people are they have a fucking he's got a whole

[01:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: he's married and he has a kid and he never looks at himself I mean I guess maybe the kid and the

[01:33:07] [SPEAKER_01]: marriage reprior to a mental breakdown and in a late yeah on set mirror show yeah so this is his

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_03]: quote about mirrors not using them doesn't directly affect me but using them does it's actually

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: easier when I don't use them so unless I absolutely have to I won't like for the exit the photo

[01:33:25] [SPEAKER_03]: for this article yeah I end me and there's a gun just out of frame look at the fucking mirror Steven

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I envy people who can just use mirrors for aesthetic purposes to just see how they look

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and if they like it or want to change it when I look in a mirror I see an unsuccessful emotionally

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_03]: ugly person I don't see my physical features I just look straight through them to which I see

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_03]: well here I'll let me finish the quote I see my failures as a son husband father brother and friend

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_03]: my inadequacies how I've hurt people how I've let them down and how much I load and hate myself

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_03]: for doing all of this so it's a little crisp yeah sounds like a little crisp also sounds like

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: those Egyptian priests we talked about yeah like this is a long line of people who have done

[01:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: this sort of self-loathing and and a fagulating in mirrors he also says it has links to death anxiety

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: oh it's that was as the time-honored dance of the self-deprecating yeah Steven says that

[01:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: looking in mirrors makes him panic about his mortality it's a reminder that he won't always be

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: able to look into a mirror and see himself that he'll eventually be gone eventually it'll be just

[01:34:37] [SPEAKER_03]: darkness and oblivion he said it triggers lots of things in my head I have a lot of invasive uncontrollable

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_03]: thoughts and when I look into a mirror they are triggered I mean honestly Steven if the other

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_03]: thing you could do here is just start a metal band yeah like everything you're saying sounds like

[01:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: a death core lyric just like a gutterl eventually it will be darkness and oblivion yeah and you can

[01:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: grow your hair out long to cover your face so you don't see your reflection and wear like kiss make up

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah Steven also hates having his photos taken as he hates seeing himself on camera

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: so extra fuck you to the photographer who would have been this article that double amy yeah I

[01:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: get a picture you're looking to a mirror excuse me excuse me you want me to go fall into the the

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: deepest depths of the spare he adds I wish I could just look in a mirror and think my hair looks

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: ridiculous all-change it your hair looks great Steven Steven is currently not receiving any help

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_03]: for his phobia he was in therapy for a couple of years and talked about it during some sessions

[01:35:40] [SPEAKER_03]: but he still lives this phobia intensely and this is a man who has access to free healthcare

[01:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: yes sure that's true get to it Steven unfortunately also has access to a family who most days

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_01]: must be like fucking priced just just let's just go without talking about mirrors for one day

[01:35:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Steven says quote the problem comes from deeply embedded feelings of low self-worth and self-esteem

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and to an extent self-loatiness. The student is a glow up he does need a glow up but yes

[01:36:08] [SPEAKER_03]: look in the mirror to acknowledge it if uh if the fab five from queer eye or let's get over there let's

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_03]: do let's you queer eye UK number one Steven yeah absolutely don't put them on British

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: bake-off it'll only become crippling problem for them we gotta get queer eye over there and we

[01:36:26] [SPEAKER_03]: got to save a life today I think we can he says I've formed these feelings and views of

[01:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: myself over decades so it might take that long for me to truly displace them and to be honest

[01:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: living without mirrors isn't that bad once you get used to it I've had so many challenges self-harm

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and suicide addictions problems with sleep eating and body image to mention a few so I've not

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_03]: really talked about it I've written a memoir about fatherhood and mental health called mad sad dysfunctional

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_03]: dad that's really good which will be published I hope at the end of April or early May and I talk

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: about it a lot in there it shows in more detail how my daily routine and emotions can be affected by

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: both using and not using mirrors and how debilitating it can be I've not met anyone who lives

[01:37:12] [SPEAKER_03]: to this phobia and could not find anything on the internet in terms of a number of people in the

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: UK living with it I feel it's met with maybe not disbelief but a difficulty to empathize

[01:37:22] [SPEAKER_03]: it's very complex and I can see why people might find it difficult to get their head around so to speak

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: the more concerning aspect is the stigma that still exists around mental health and mental illness

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I think people are still scared of it and a lot of this is down to a lack of understanding

[01:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: misinformation and the way it's portrayed in sensationalized and the media especially films

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and news coverage I think there he's speaking about mental health and mental illness and not fear

[01:37:47] [SPEAKER_03]: of mirrors but you could argue that both are sensationalized in film yes 100% keep or

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_03]: subtle in the mirror yeah keep that will be on the uh scared all the time watch list when we finally

[01:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: start our live watch or any of the schlock mirror mirror movies there's like a three or four of

[01:38:06] [SPEAKER_03]: them Steven sees away of battling his phobia especially because he's become so used to never

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_03]: using mirrors he says I'm not sure I'll ever use mirrors on a daily basis again but it's like

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_03]: anything you learn to live without something and the more you do the easier things become well

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to see you with the I have nothing to say to Steve I don't know because now I feel

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_01]: like you know he was like no people don't take me seriously I'm like well we did laugh a little

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_01]: bit during a story thought that we don't take him seriously and that not empathetic to his play but

[01:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: it really seems like a person who is incredibly well aware and attuned to their what they

[01:38:42] [SPEAKER_01]: believe to be an adequate season their life and they're kind of blaming a mirror for it

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: well you know because like we're do you say it earlier like mirrors can be psychologically like

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: they're just reflecting back on us yeah you know and and it's both a physical manifestation

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: or like representation but also from that you can you can pierce that physical thing and see

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: like I said using it as a fucking journal and it seems like using it as a journal and then literally

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: journal into a book he's publishing yeah so I mean I'm I thought for anything like good on Steven

[01:39:14] [SPEAKER_01]: for for discovering himself through his hatred of mirrors I mean I I yes we joke about it I

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_03]: feel like I doubt Steven will hear this but if he does I should say that I mean this is clearly

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_03]: very difficult thing and we're not we don't mean to cut you down and we've all live with

[01:39:33] [SPEAKER_03]: shame and stuff but to me this this sounds like a pretty much a you know he uses a lot of words

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_03]: to say it but it's a man who has filled the shame over something and it's just easier to

[01:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: literally never look yourself in the eye or yeah yeah yeah did they say how do you look yourself

[01:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you look yourself in the mirror people say when they want to like cut deep but they're just like

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you you profited off the kids getting sick and you're you're but making all his pollution from

[01:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: your factory Mr. Bigwig how do you look at yourself in the mirror how you sleep with yourself at night

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and so yeah he'll probably write he's probably got sorry you know he might be he might own a giant

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_03]: corporation he's been done toxic waste and kids back yard if Steven hadn't run the AIDS factory

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: 30 I mean if Steven didn't lose all those kids on his chocolate factory tour

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: you he'd be a little bit more capable of looking himself in the mirror always in

[01:40:25] [SPEAKER_03]: balloon but got fucking sucked into a ceiling fan so after all this talk about ghost demon

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_03]: sky and communication with the dad and intense self-loathing where would you place the fear of mirrors

[01:40:36] [SPEAKER_01]: on our fear tier oh honor off of drugs let's just go with off off of drugs I have a lot of

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the mirror and that is I think a universal issue but I'm not afraid of mirrors but I am afraid

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_01]: of things in my peripheral and so if I'm you know I'm gonna get graphic but if I'm murdering someone's

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: getting um if I'm like taking a piss or stuff they it might the way my bathroom is set up

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that the toilets are front of me in the mirrors to my left it would not be uncommon for me to like

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: whip my head to the left and think I saw a movement but it was just out of the corner of my

[01:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: eye my own peripheral like I would see it probably just me and you know I have in this is more

[01:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: movies did it to me but if I'm getting something out of my medicine cabinet and I go to close

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the medicine cabinet again there's always that split moment where I'm like it's something to be

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: behind me so yeah it is it's a trickster it's a trickster material it's somewhere in the middle of

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: here for me I mean oh I forgot to give it a number yeah I would say middle little less than middle

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah it's not as in hall of mirrors would be higher okay like if I'm in a place it's all mirrors

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm now lost because of the because of what mirrors have done to me yeah then it's higher

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think just a mirror it mirrors middle the road for me unless I'm having to shower in one of

[01:42:06] [SPEAKER_03]: those hotels where it's just like the giant mirror across from oh yeah yeah that's not a pretty

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_03]: much higher on your turn around in your tire and you get a it's like it's like accidentally

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_03]: turning the front face in camera on when you're not expecting it oh yeah yeah so you're

[01:42:22] [SPEAKER_03]: yourself it's just like staggered looking and not great 80% crone yeah at that point yeah it's

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_03]: it's a middle of the road for me it's definitely creepier than I gave it credit for before researching

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_03]: the episode but yeah I mean we should I be curious oh well baby digger on do some research on this

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_03]: closing medicine cabinet mirrors spooks me a little bit because of movies yeah I wonder what

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_03]: the first medicine cabinet scare was in a movie in a movie I'm sure it's findable I'm sure

[01:42:52] [SPEAKER_03]: it's findable we'll have to look at uh medicine cabinet dot com but here's a positive fun fact

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_03]: to leave you with in some cultures mirrors are actually considered protective in funkshwa for

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_03]: example mirrors are used deflect negative energy into expand spaces so that mirror in your bedroom

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_03]: that you didn't break when you failed at lady spades yeah it may not be a portal for ghost at all

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_03]: but it could be a shield to keep the rest of the rest of the spirits in bay or just suck things

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_01]: into like a fucking in superman where they put him into the that charter glass the negative

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: not the negative zone in superman it's called something else um the phantom zone it's called

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the phantom zone but like yeah be good if you can suck people into a mirror yeah that would

[01:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: be a fun that would be a fun power to have I take that power yeah toss one of the fuckers and mirrors

[01:43:39] [SPEAKER_03]: we didn't even touch on candy man there's so much more mirror stuff we could we are very

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_01]: unlikely they will do a part two of mirrors but we'll happily talk to people more about mirrors

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_01]: about mirrors that's true and we didn't well we didn't I was gonna say we didn't touch on like

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: sitting shiver anything where they cover the mirrors but that has nothing to do with

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that I believe is about keeping your focus on your grief and on the day and not it's like

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_01]: about not having it be about you or a distraction and so it's about the person who has passed

[01:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and staying with your grief right so I don't believe as anything to do with like scary stuff

[01:44:14] [SPEAKER_01]: well but I'm sure someone might mention it's wondering what you're gonna get up yeah well

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: until next time from a very hot room in Los Angeles god so hot i'm Chris Colari and i'm melted

[01:44:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this has been scared all the time and we'll see you next week see you guys bye

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: scare all the time is co-produced by Chris Colari an Edfacola written by Chris Colari

[01:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: edited by Edfacola additional support and keeper of sanity is test-fifle our theme song is the

[01:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: track scared by perpetual stew and mr. disclaimer is

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[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_00]: don't worry full steady can't welcome no part of the show can't be re-produced anywhere without permission

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_03]: copyright and starry legends production night we are in this together together