Alien Abductions Part 2

[00:00:00] Alright, welcome back to Scared All The Time.

[00:00:17] I'm Chris Collari And I'm Ed Ficola

[00:00:19] And you're listening to part 2 of our series on Alien Abductions.

[00:00:22] If you haven't listened to part 1 yet, what are you doing?

[00:00:26] We cover a whole bunch of great stuff in that episode from my own weird abduction dreams to

[00:00:30] fairies, changelings and the history of supernatural abductions in folklore.

[00:00:36] And we wrap up with the first documented case of alien abduction in human history, a very

[00:00:41] sexy story out of Brazil.

[00:00:43] So make sure you go put that episode in your ears so that you can enjoy this week

[00:00:48] where we get into the case that made Alien Abductions a modern phenomenon, the Betty

[00:00:53] and Barney Hill Abduction.

[00:00:55] Before this story broke in 1965, Alien Abductions were basically unheard of.

[00:01:01] In 1975, NBC aired a made for TV movie based on the Hill's story and by 1977, in just those

[00:01:08] two years from 1975 to 1977, Alien Abduction cases jumped 2500%.

[00:01:17] Many of them mirrored the Hill's story, others were much, much stranger.

[00:01:23] So rub your tummy and look to the stars.

[00:01:26] That's a joke for people who listened to part 1, so go listen to part 1 because we're

[00:01:31] going where no man, well, where lots of men and some women have gone before into a spaceship.

[00:01:38] What are we?

[00:01:39] Scare.

[00:01:40] When are we?

[00:01:41] All the time.

[00:01:42] Join us.

[00:01:43] Join us.

[00:01:44] Join us.

[00:01:45] Now it is time for...

[00:01:47] Time for...

[00:01:48] Scare.

[00:01:49] What does that mean?

[00:01:51] All right, welcome back.

[00:01:52] Little housekeeping this time led by Ed.

[00:01:54] Ed's leading housekeeping today.

[00:01:55] How exciting.

[00:01:56] Hey, look at that.

[00:01:57] Go, Ed.

[00:01:58] I like this.

[00:01:59] This is nice.

[00:02:00] It is nice.

[00:02:01] A couple things.

[00:02:02] You watched the Eclipse this week.

[00:02:03] Did you get a chance to see?

[00:02:04] And it wasn't great in California, but did you get a chance to see anything?

[00:02:07] No, I didn't because it wasn't going to be great and so I was busy when it happened.

[00:02:12] Okay.

[00:02:13] I always look.

[00:02:14] I mean, I still have some shitty, I don't know, glasses from 2017 or whatever.

[00:02:18] That one was, it was a partial one last year in October.

[00:02:21] So I have these glasses laying around, you know?

[00:02:23] But I went and looked.

[00:02:24] It's pretty cool.

[00:02:25] My brother took his family to Canada to watch like a better version.

[00:02:29] Wow.

[00:02:30] I guess like any place where it was going to be really good, they were just gouging

[00:02:33] the shit out of prices to like for Airbnbs or for hotels and stuff.

[00:02:37] But then he was like, let me expand my search into Canada because I can still

[00:02:40] drive to Canada.

[00:02:42] And apparently it was drastically lower.

[00:02:44] Like they were not just fully capitalismed out to the max up there.

[00:02:48] So he got a really super reasonable like any other week prices.

[00:02:52] And he went and saw it and he had a great time.

[00:02:54] That's amazing.

[00:02:55] Yeah, if I could step outside and see a full solar eclipse, I definitely would.

[00:02:59] I paid attention to to see if I felt a vibe shift and I didn't feel a vibe shift.

[00:03:04] But then later in the day, the first AI music generator came out

[00:03:08] and the vibe definitely shifted.

[00:03:10] Oh yeah, no, we'll get into that week.

[00:03:12] Chris and I were driving recently and we're talking a bunch about the state

[00:03:16] of commerce and artificial intelligence and all these other kind of big ideas

[00:03:20] in the crap that we talk about when we're not on Mike that will try next

[00:03:23] season to actually talk about on Mike, especially as more and more crap

[00:03:26] comes out that is scary and bums us out and all that type of shit.

[00:03:30] Yeah, computers are messing up our day.

[00:03:32] That said, yeah, you're right, that's definitely a vibe shift.

[00:03:34] So you did discover a vibe shift.

[00:03:36] I did. And I think the sun did it.

[00:03:38] If the sun, well, the moon did it, I guess.

[00:03:39] The moon did it.

[00:03:40] As it often does, all changes the moon brings, whether it's menstrual

[00:03:44] or werewolves, it's a big change maker.

[00:03:46] That's why we landed on its face.

[00:03:49] So who's boss?

[00:03:50] That said, I was actually I was watching the in Mexico was like the first

[00:03:54] totality or whatever was happening in Mexico first.

[00:03:57] And I just was watching it was counting down and I was like,

[00:04:00] be crazy if something happened.

[00:04:02] Yeah, right.

[00:04:03] I like put a story up on our Instagram about it where I was like,

[00:04:05] they don't know the context to it.

[00:04:06] But in my brain, I was like, are the dead going to rise?

[00:04:08] Yeah, is the ground going to shake?

[00:04:09] We could see this on TV.

[00:04:11] Like it would be not here.

[00:04:12] I want it to happen like where it's going total darkness.

[00:04:16] It's like isolated incidents of insanity.

[00:04:19] And then when it went totally dark in the first spot,

[00:04:22] whatever news network we were watching, all of the cameras got really shitty.

[00:04:27] They got really shitty, like artifacting

[00:04:29] like when your Skype goes crummy, you know?

[00:04:31] And you can only hearing every third word.

[00:04:33] I was like, do we need the sun for good internet?

[00:04:35] Like why the fuck is it suck all of a sudden?

[00:04:38] Like other channels figure it out.

[00:04:39] But it was really messed up.

[00:04:40] It happened like right when it went total.

[00:04:42] That's spooky.

[00:04:43] I don't like that.

[00:04:44] Yes, nuts.

[00:04:45] All right, moving on.

[00:04:46] Next order of housekeeping business.

[00:04:49] How's your tooth?

[00:04:50] Fuck man.

[00:04:51] Better, better.

[00:04:52] The past couple of days, the pain has subsided.

[00:04:54] And then this morning I went in for a checkup to make sure it was healing.

[00:04:58] And it literally took like 30 seconds.

[00:05:00] The dentist just opened my mouth and he poked at the hole

[00:05:03] and he was like, excellent, great.

[00:05:05] All right.

[00:05:05] See you in three months.

[00:05:06] So. Oh, OK.

[00:05:08] Three months.

[00:05:08] I get an implant at three months after that when the implant like takes hold or

[00:05:13] something, then they give me my new tooth, which all sounds very expensive.

[00:05:18] And no one's given me kind of fuck this dentist.

[00:05:22] When I asked him how much this is all going to cost the day that they did it,

[00:05:25] he was like, I don't know.

[00:05:27] The desk will help you figure that out.

[00:05:29] And I was like, well, just because, you know, rent's coming up soon.

[00:05:32] Like I think it was actually the day that I was in there April 1st.

[00:05:34] Yeah.

[00:05:35] Rent was going to come out of my bank account.

[00:05:37] Came out of your mouth, bro.

[00:05:38] Yeah. It's like, you know, it was like, it's just because rent's coming out.

[00:05:40] So like if this is going to be a lot, I might have to do a payment plan

[00:05:44] because they can't just give you a bunch of money today.

[00:05:46] And he was like, OK, I'll get somebody.

[00:05:49] He seemed annoyed about it.

[00:05:51] And so they haven't even discussed how much this implant is going to cost.

[00:05:54] I suspect more than I wanted to.

[00:05:56] So maybe I'll just get a fucking one of those George Washington style.

[00:06:01] Put some wood in there or something.

[00:06:02] It's in the back so no one can see it anyway.

[00:06:04] Get like a donkey tooth or something.

[00:06:06] Bro, get me a donkey tooth.

[00:06:07] Look down when you're walking.

[00:06:08] I'm sure somebody dropped a tooth in this shitty city.

[00:06:11] All the meth heads out there.

[00:06:12] There's a couple teeth laying around.

[00:06:13] Dude, just pick one up and ask if they can pop it in.

[00:06:15] I saw something on the paranormal subreddit.

[00:06:18] I didn't follow the thread, so I don't know where this ended up.

[00:06:20] But someone posted that they had just had like two siblings

[00:06:24] and a step sibling all died within a few days of each other.

[00:06:27] And then they woke up and they found a molar laying on their bed.

[00:06:30] And it didn't belong to her and it didn't belong to her husband.

[00:06:33] They didn't know where the molar came from.

[00:06:35] So maybe I should ask her if she can send me her haunted molar

[00:06:38] and I can pop that sucker in.

[00:06:39] Yeah, you kicking that to the curb?

[00:06:40] You getting rid of that molar and send it over?

[00:06:42] One of her siblings will probably have been a serial killer or something

[00:06:46] and I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night.

[00:06:47] My molar will be throbbing and I'm thinking about slitting people's

[00:06:50] throats. I mean, that's the problem with dude.

[00:06:53] We just came up with a movie, Dead Tooth.

[00:06:55] Oh, dead tooth.

[00:06:56] And a guy gets a tooth replacement from, you know,

[00:06:59] a serial killer and slowly turns into a serial killer.

[00:07:02] It's not the most original idea, but it's a great title.

[00:07:04] So I think we should run with it.

[00:07:06] We should run with it.

[00:07:07] Scared All Time Presents, Dead Tooth.

[00:07:09] I feel like if there's one thing we've learned in this industry,

[00:07:12] the original ideas don't necessarily make it the furthest.

[00:07:15] No, the original ideas in this industry,

[00:07:17] it's that's a tooth that doesn't take in month three,

[00:07:20] that they're like, oh, this isn't going to take hold.

[00:07:22] Just bring a tooth in that's more like die hard on a plane or whatever.

[00:07:26] Yeah. Well, it's basically what was that movie Body Parts with Jeff Fahey,

[00:07:30] I think, and he gets like a, is it a heart, a killer's heart?

[00:07:34] And then he goes like cutting off other people's arms or something.

[00:07:37] I don't remember the whole.

[00:07:37] Yes, I know what the movie you're talking about.

[00:07:39] There was a lot of schlock that ran with that.

[00:07:41] It was like, got a hair transplant.

[00:07:42] Now I'm a killer.

[00:07:43] Got a fucking new leg.

[00:07:44] Now I'm a killer.

[00:07:45] I got it whatever.

[00:07:46] Like scud the disposable assassin does that stuff.

[00:07:49] Dude, the hair one would be called Split Ends.

[00:07:51] Split ends, dude.

[00:07:52] Split ends, dead tooth.

[00:07:54] The listeners at home know we can't afford to make any of these.

[00:07:57] Like we're already talking about like,

[00:07:59] maybe I should just let our teeth are out.

[00:08:00] Like we can't afford to fucking fix them.

[00:08:03] So I don't think we're going to be able to get the studio scared

[00:08:05] all time, studio off the ground anytime soon.

[00:08:08] No, but when we do, good to hear your mouth is well on its way

[00:08:12] to being filled with teeth.

[00:08:13] Thank you. Thank you.

[00:08:15] What else we got?

[00:08:16] I guess we're checking in on body stuff.

[00:08:18] Like how are you doing in the square department?

[00:08:20] I don't want to spoil things for the audience

[00:08:22] because I'm sure we're going to jump into this with you in a second.

[00:08:25] But my squareness is I have not lost as much weight

[00:08:29] as you've been able to.

[00:08:31] I have not been focused on diet very well,

[00:08:34] but I have been working out every day or almost every day in boxing VR.

[00:08:39] So my heart strength is great.

[00:08:41] I feel good every day.

[00:08:43] Imagine how strong it would be

[00:08:44] if they put the heart of a killer in you.

[00:08:46] And I know, I know.

[00:08:47] And for the first time in a long time,

[00:08:50] I can tell I'm getting actually like real abs,

[00:08:53] but they're just currently still under some belly fat.

[00:08:56] But I can tell that they're like actually forming.

[00:08:59] I don't even touch that part of my body.

[00:09:00] I don't want anything happening where I can't see it. True.

[00:09:03] But how's Europe?

[00:09:04] You've been getting very square.

[00:09:05] Yeah, no, it's going great.

[00:09:07] You know, I'm batting over 500.

[00:09:08] I think I did like 17 or 18 days last month,

[00:09:11] according to my like gym check ins on the app.

[00:09:14] But I do go to the gym and yeah,

[00:09:16] and I take my diet really seriously the last couple of months.

[00:09:18] And yeah, I'm down like, you know, 13 pounds, 14 pounds.

[00:09:22] Hey, soundboard.

[00:09:24] Congratulations.

[00:09:26] Yeah, it's been great.

[00:09:27] I feel great going up and downstairs

[00:09:29] and I'm not out of breath.

[00:09:30] I love it. Awesome, man.

[00:09:31] So yeah, getting square rules.

[00:09:33] Hopefully everyone else is out there a little inspired to

[00:09:36] do a little exercise.

[00:09:37] I hated exercise and now I'm kind of into it.

[00:09:40] So yeah, same, same.

[00:09:41] It's good for you.

[00:09:42] And I bring my scared all the time towel with me.

[00:09:44] My don't fear the square towel

[00:09:46] and no one ever comments on it.

[00:09:48] But one day they might.

[00:09:48] Hey, we're getting that merch going.

[00:09:51] Starting up the merch machine.

[00:09:52] So well, I guess the next part we could talk about in this nice long

[00:09:56] Ed ran housekeeping is big announcements

[00:09:59] the next couple of weeks, real big announcements.

[00:10:02] You guys don't even know.

[00:10:03] You guys don't even know because we're not announcing full things yet.

[00:10:06] But we have a very cool season finale set up

[00:10:09] a crossover with a podcast that we're into

[00:10:12] and we're sure you either already know

[00:10:14] or you will become a fan probably after

[00:10:17] because they're really, really rad.

[00:10:18] And we won't say anything yet.

[00:10:21] But next week, if you're listening to this, you know, on a weekly schedule,

[00:10:25] we'll announce who it is with some fun art.

[00:10:27] But yeah, we're really excited for our season finale.

[00:10:29] It's going to be a blast.

[00:10:30] And then for next week, you don't have to wait, guys.

[00:10:33] Next week, believe it or not, we're doing our first

[00:10:36] maybe last two fucking knows we're doing our first part three.

[00:10:40] We're having some fun with aliens.

[00:10:42] So hopefully you are too, because we're doing at least one more.

[00:10:45] Definitely only one more installment.

[00:10:48] So just know the alien stuff's going to be around for at least one more week.

[00:10:52] And then back to, you know, other shit.

[00:10:55] So yeah, pretty excited.

[00:10:57] We have a really great show.

[00:10:58] And I know from what we've heard online, people are really liking

[00:11:01] Alien Part One, which is why when we were doing Alien Part Two,

[00:11:04] we were like, hey, people are into it.

[00:11:05] We're having a fun time.

[00:11:06] So let's maybe do three.

[00:11:08] And so we're doing three and without any further ado,

[00:11:11] let's get into Alien Abductions Part Two.

[00:11:15] So I know that Betty and Barney Hill Abduction

[00:11:17] is one of the gold standard stories of UFOology up there with Roswell,

[00:11:21] Rendlesham Forest and now the Go Fast videos that came out a few years back.

[00:11:25] But I think it's worth revisiting for those who haven't heard of it.

[00:11:29] And have you are you familiar with Betty and Barney Hill?

[00:11:31] I know the name.

[00:11:32] I feel like I recognize that they exist.

[00:11:35] I think I've been listening to stuff in this space long enough.

[00:11:38] But I honestly don't know any of the details of it.

[00:11:41] Yeah, I think a lot of people who read a lot about UFOs

[00:11:44] and alien abductions are probably in the same boat

[00:11:47] because this case really set the template,

[00:11:51] set the standard for what an alien abduction is.

[00:11:55] But the details of it are really fascinating.

[00:11:59] And I think kind of steeped in American history

[00:12:02] and a very interesting relationship between the hills as a couple.

[00:12:07] So there's a lot of details to get into.

[00:12:09] But yeah, it set the template for every alien abduction to follow.

[00:12:13] And we will try to use some of the recordings

[00:12:18] from the actual psychiatrist tapes who treated them

[00:12:22] because those recordings are publicly available.

[00:12:26] Some of the tape is hard to hear.

[00:12:27] So some of it will probably be putting into the episode

[00:12:30] and some of it Ed and I might just act out and read.

[00:12:34] But we'll get there when we get there.

[00:12:36] Let's start with the basics.

[00:12:37] Who were the hills and what happened to them?

[00:12:40] And do they have eyes?

[00:12:42] These hills do have eyes and they're not nuclear mutants, though.

[00:12:46] Sure. They're very normal people.

[00:12:48] By all accounts, the hills were an exemplary couple.

[00:12:51] Barney was a postman and Betty was a social worker

[00:12:54] who was active in their New England community

[00:12:56] and in the civil rights movement.

[00:12:58] Quoting here from an article on history.com,

[00:13:01] Barney worked a grueling night shift at the post office

[00:13:04] driving 60 miles each way to his job

[00:13:08] and Betty's job handling state child welfare cases

[00:13:11] was no easier, no shit.

[00:13:12] That sounds like probably one of the most stressful

[00:13:15] and depressing and very occasionally rewarding jobs.

[00:13:19] Yeah. You could have, but yeah, for sure.

[00:13:22] The little free time they had was devoted to their church

[00:13:25] and activities related to the civil rights movement.

[00:13:27] And it's important slash relevant to note here that

[00:13:30] the hills were a mixed race couple.

[00:13:32] Barney was black, Betty was white

[00:13:34] and even in liberal Northeastern circles,

[00:13:37] they lived in Portsmouth, New Hampshire,

[00:13:38] which is not too far from Boston,

[00:13:40] which at the time was like one of the most racist cities in the world.

[00:13:43] So this was still pretty uncommon.

[00:13:46] And there's a really interesting book by Matthew Bowman

[00:13:49] called The Abduction of Betty and Barney Hill,

[00:13:51] Alien Encounters, Civil Rights and the New Age in America

[00:13:55] that examines the case through this lens.

[00:13:57] Bowman's book doesn't give credence to the idea

[00:14:00] that Betty and Barney Hill were abducted by aliens,

[00:14:02] which is why we aren't really going to discuss it on this show.

[00:14:05] But it does offer a cultural reading of the entire experience.

[00:14:09] As a review on Slate so eloquently puts it,

[00:14:11] the hills move through various disciplines of authority,

[00:14:14] the military, the church, psychiatric professionals,

[00:14:18] always with the goal of finding an established, credible person

[00:14:21] who would not only take them seriously,

[00:14:22] but also give shape and meaning to what they had experienced.

[00:14:26] Their failure to find validation

[00:14:27] in these traditional institutions offers in microcosm

[00:14:31] a story of the failure of a specific narrative

[00:14:34] of American progress and success.

[00:14:36] So if you find this topic interesting,

[00:14:39] please do check out the book.

[00:14:40] We'll put an Amazon link in the show notes.

[00:14:42] But it's not an affiliate link or anything.

[00:14:43] So you could just as easily go to the library

[00:14:45] like it does nothing for us or that. Sure.

[00:14:48] Yeah. Sure.

[00:14:48] It's easy to find anywhere you want.

[00:14:50] In any case, Betty and Barney had been married

[00:14:53] about 16 months at this point

[00:14:54] and they were so stressed at their jobs and so busy

[00:14:57] that they hadn't had a honeymoon yet.

[00:14:59] So they took a last minute trip up to Montreal

[00:15:02] and Niagara Falls as sort of a delayed honeymoon.

[00:15:05] It was a really impulsive last minute decision.

[00:15:08] They saw they had some time and, you know,

[00:15:10] kind of got wrapped up in it and decided to take this trip.

[00:15:13] But they didn't have time to go to the bank

[00:15:15] before it closed for the weekend.

[00:15:16] So they got in their car with less than $70 in their pockets.

[00:15:19] It was a kind of a rush, stressful,

[00:15:22] not really a great honeymoon trip.

[00:15:24] And on the last night of their three day trip

[00:15:26] on the way back home,

[00:15:28] they stopped in a Vermont diner to recharge before driving back,

[00:15:31] which God to stop in a Vermont diner in 1961

[00:15:36] in the fall.

[00:15:37] That's got to just be I wish I could go there.

[00:15:40] Just sounds so pleasant.

[00:15:41] It does sound pleasant, but it could be less pleasant,

[00:15:43] I guess if you're a mixed race couple in 1961.

[00:15:46] Well, they figured that if they pushed through the night,

[00:15:49] they could beat the wind and rains

[00:15:51] from an approaching hurricane

[00:15:52] and left the diner around 10 p.m.

[00:15:55] Estimating that they could reach their house

[00:15:57] in Portsmouth, New Hampshire between two and three a.m.

[00:15:59] at the latest now from Wikipedia.

[00:16:03] Around 10 30 at night, Betty saw what she first thought

[00:16:06] was a falling star in the distance,

[00:16:08] except it appeared to be falling up

[00:16:10] because it moved erratically and grew bigger and brighter.

[00:16:13] Betty urged Barney to stop the car for a closer look

[00:16:16] as well as to walk their dog, Delcy.

[00:16:18] Barney stopped at a scenic picnic area

[00:16:20] just south of Twin Mountain.

[00:16:22] Now, Ed, have you ever been up this way?

[00:16:24] I know you're a northeastern guy from Connecticut.

[00:16:27] Have you ever been up in this area?

[00:16:28] Oh, yeah, no, we go skiing with my brothers

[00:16:30] in Vermont every winter,

[00:16:33] which I don't consider those vacations

[00:16:34] as it was like a four hour drive.

[00:16:36] Yeah. But yeah, I was up in Vermont pretty regularly.

[00:16:40] New Hampshire or less.

[00:16:41] So I think New Hampshire, we would just drive over the border

[00:16:43] to buy state alcohol, you know, not my family.

[00:16:47] I'm saying like in college as a family trip,

[00:16:49] you and your mom, your dad, your brother's getting the car.

[00:16:52] Go get a couple of cheap handles of vodka.

[00:16:54] Yeah, just we can get where we're a Dubra family.

[00:16:56] So it was already six dollars.

[00:16:59] Now, this was like in college, you know, we'd go, you know,

[00:17:02] whoever had a car would go over into New Hampshire

[00:17:04] and we'd get a bunch of booze for parties and stuff

[00:17:06] and not pay taxes. Yeah.

[00:17:07] But no, I spent a lot more time in Vermont.

[00:17:08] I love it. That's where I got my caricature done

[00:17:10] by the Elagash people.

[00:17:11] Yeah, it's beautiful.

[00:17:12] I only bring it up just to say some of these areas up there.

[00:17:15] I don't know exactly where Twin Mountain is,

[00:17:17] but some of this is isolated,

[00:17:20] like depending on where they stopped.

[00:17:22] It is a dark and spooky road

[00:17:24] that you don't really want to be stopped for too long on.

[00:17:27] So through binoculars at this picnic area,

[00:17:31] Betty observed an odd shaped craft flashing multicolored lights

[00:17:36] travel across the face of the moon.

[00:17:39] Because her sister had once claimed to have seen a flying saucer,

[00:17:42] Betty thought that might be what she was seeing too.

[00:17:45] Barney disagreed.

[00:17:47] When he looked through the binoculars,

[00:17:48] he saw what looked to him like a commercial airliner

[00:17:51] traveling toward Vermont on its way to Montreal.

[00:17:54] Except as soon as he came to that conclusion,

[00:17:57] the craft rapidly descended towards them

[00:17:59] without looking like it had turned.

[00:18:01] Barney would later say this object that was a plane

[00:18:04] was not a plane, which is such a spooky line.

[00:18:08] Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[00:18:08] So the hills get back in the car

[00:18:11] and continue down the highway, watching this thing in the sky.

[00:18:15] It seems like it was kind of following them.

[00:18:18] And then suddenly the UFO lowered itself

[00:18:20] in front of their car and hovered silently as though it was waiting for them.

[00:18:24] So Barney stopped in the middle of the road,

[00:18:26] gets out with the binoculars again and a gun.

[00:18:28] He did bring a gun with him on this trip.

[00:18:30] Hell yeah, dude. New Hampshire, live free or die.

[00:18:33] Yeah, dude, he was living free.

[00:18:35] He was ready to go if these aliens were trouble.

[00:18:38] Unfortunately, they were too far away, I guess, to shoot.

[00:18:41] I shouldn't say unfortunately.

[00:18:43] What am I talking about? Why would you want to shoot an alien?

[00:18:45] This got to be a reason. Listen, it's stand your ground laws.

[00:18:49] Yeah, if an alien comes to your door and you blow him away, not on you.

[00:18:53] It's not on you. It's not on you.

[00:18:54] There's actually if you haven't seen

[00:18:56] what was that movie that was on Hulu last year?

[00:18:58] Galooka Goo on Hulu.

[00:18:59] No, not Galooka Goo on Hulu.

[00:19:01] It's like a home invasion movie with aliens.

[00:19:03] It's pretty good.

[00:19:04] Yeah, don't look up or no one's going to save you or no one's going to save you.

[00:19:10] Close enough, the movie they were thinking of is 2023s.

[00:19:13] No one will save you.

[00:19:15] That was basically stand your ground, the alien version, though.

[00:19:19] That was a stand your ground movie. OK.

[00:19:21] In any case, Barney looked through the binoculars

[00:19:24] and this time the craft was close enough that he saw about 10 aliens.

[00:19:28] Although the number has fluctuated.

[00:19:30] Are they riding outside like tailspin?

[00:19:32] Yeah, they're ghost riding the whip down from Venus.

[00:19:35] Sounds like it.

[00:19:36] He described the ship as basically like a pancake

[00:19:39] floating in the road with this big row of glass or maybe not glass,

[00:19:44] but big row of windows in the front.

[00:19:46] OK, so it's like Tony Stark's house from Iron Man One

[00:19:49] where it's like that floor to ceiling windows in a circle.

[00:19:52] Sure, it doesn't matter. It's helping me.

[00:19:54] I was going to say sort of like Leforge's glasses

[00:19:58] or whatever those are in Star Trek.

[00:19:59] Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, like that.

[00:20:01] OK, so we both have for our own personal visual cues.

[00:20:05] Both have horrifically nerdy references for this.

[00:20:08] Yeah, sure.

[00:20:08] So he saw about 10 aliens through this window with huge eyes

[00:20:12] and grayish skin staring back at him.

[00:20:15] They wore shiny black or dark blue uniforms with matching caps.

[00:20:19] And Barney would later tell investigators that they were somehow not human,

[00:20:23] which the huge eyes and gray skin would tip me off as well.

[00:20:27] Yeah, but it sounds like they're also dressed like postmen like him.

[00:20:30] So maybe he's a little confused, you know, about like, oh, I mean,

[00:20:33] they're different looking dudes, but I didn't pull this exact quote later.

[00:20:37] But on the tape, which again, we're going to try to use some clips.

[00:20:40] I really encourage anyone who's interested in this to listen

[00:20:44] to the full Barney and Betty tapes that are available.

[00:20:47] I don't think all of the tapes they made are actually online,

[00:20:51] but the ones that are online, you should listen to the whole thing

[00:20:53] because they are super compelling.

[00:20:57] But you really get a sense for how vague and dreamlike

[00:21:01] a lot of these experiences really are.

[00:21:03] And at one point, Barney describes them as looking like Nazis in these uniforms.

[00:21:08] Sure. It only comes up once, but it's this sort of,

[00:21:11] you know, it's black or maybe it's blue and they have these hats.

[00:21:15] One guy he says is wearing a scarf, which is an odd detail for an alien.

[00:21:19] Well, you know, that alien rode in the Red Barons plane right beside the UFO.

[00:21:25] That's why you had that six scarf, dude.

[00:21:27] It is September in Vermont.

[00:21:29] So, you know, throw a little scarf, cute hat, whatever.

[00:21:33] I do love one.

[00:21:34] So it's 12 aliens.

[00:21:35] And I just love that that one alien is getting shit the whole time from like,

[00:21:39] oh, fucking scarf really?

[00:21:41] Like it's fucking cold out there, dude.

[00:21:42] You refuse to turn up the heat because of, I don't know, whatever.

[00:21:45] And now I have to wear a scarf and it treat me like shit.

[00:21:48] I feel like if they're going to pluck up humans for experimentation,

[00:21:52] that would be like wearing your nicest clothes to go pond fishing or something.

[00:21:56] I don't know. Your friends would be like,

[00:21:58] what are you wearing a fucking scarf for?

[00:21:59] You got to get waiters on.

[00:22:01] No, I think it's I think it's a cold thing.

[00:22:02] I think he's just one of the aliens is frail.

[00:22:04] So you don't think he's just stylish?

[00:22:06] Well, I've never worn a scarf for style.

[00:22:08] So my brain immediately went to like, OK, it's for warmth.

[00:22:11] To me, a scarf is like a beret.

[00:22:13] If you're wearing it, it's for style.

[00:22:16] I mean, I guess you could wear a scarf for the cold.

[00:22:18] What do you wear when it snows?

[00:22:20] I've never.

[00:22:21] Well, I shouldn't say I've never worn a scarf,

[00:22:22] but I've almost never worn a scarf.

[00:22:24] That's crazy.

[00:22:25] You can ask anyone who knows me.

[00:22:26] It's why you're sick all the time.

[00:22:27] I wear scarves or wear hats.

[00:22:29] I'm not sick all the time.

[00:22:30] I'm starting that rumor.

[00:22:31] I'm never sick.

[00:22:32] I'm starting it and people already believe it.

[00:22:34] It'll be our spin-off show, Sick All the Time,

[00:22:36] violently ill all the time.

[00:22:38] I don't think I can sit through stories of just gross sickness.

[00:22:40] But yeah, I very utilitarianly thought the scarf was for warmth.

[00:22:44] All right.

[00:22:45] Well, whatever the scarf was for,

[00:22:47] Barney was Barney was afraid of it and the people in the ship

[00:22:51] or the somehow not human beings in the ship.

[00:22:54] He felt as if they were communicating with him telepathically

[00:22:58] and he shouted, we need to get out of here.

[00:23:00] He ran back to the car and told Betty they're going to capture us.

[00:23:04] He hit the gas.

[00:23:05] They took off down the road.

[00:23:06] But as soon as they did, the hills heard beeping sounds

[00:23:09] coming from the trunk of their car.

[00:23:11] And they said they both felt a tingling sensation.

[00:23:15] They were called making a sharp turn,

[00:23:18] running into some kind of roadblock

[00:23:20] and seeing what they described as either like a fiery orb.

[00:23:24] Or one of them said it was like the moon sitting in the middle of the road.

[00:23:28] Oh, wow.

[00:23:28] And then next thing they knew, they're at home.

[00:23:32] It's five a.m. pulling into the driveway

[00:23:34] and they don't know where the last two hours went.

[00:23:36] Whoa, it's like a giant neuralyzer in the street.

[00:23:39] Yeah, kind of.

[00:23:40] But again, the vagueness is this is why I get encouraged.

[00:23:43] We'll listen to the whole thing.

[00:23:44] The vagueness is coming from them.

[00:23:46] It is a fuzzy memory and a fuzzy experience.

[00:23:49] So a lot of this is kind of left up to interpretation.

[00:23:53] But what's not up for debate is that Barney's shoes were scuffed up.

[00:23:58] Betty's dress was ripped and dusted with an unidentified powder

[00:24:03] while Barney had an odd feeling that someone had collected his semen.

[00:24:07] OK, which listen, I don't know what sense that is.

[00:24:10] That's a sixth, seventh sense, eighth sense.

[00:24:12] If you come home covered in an unidentified powder

[00:24:16] feeling like someone has collected your semen,

[00:24:18] you either got abducted by aliens or you went to Studio 54.

[00:24:22] That's got to be the only two.

[00:24:24] According to you. Either way,

[00:24:25] you end up, I think probably with the same feeling.

[00:24:28] But the weirdness didn't stop there.

[00:24:30] The car's trunk where they heard the weird beeping sounds coming from

[00:24:34] now bore strange shiny circles that hadn't been there earlier.

[00:24:38] And when they held a magnetic compass near the spots,

[00:24:41] the needle on the compass spun wildly.

[00:24:44] Each of their watches had stopped and the binocular strap was broken.

[00:24:48] So the following day, the Hills called the nearby U.S.

[00:24:52] Air Force Base in Portsmouth to report the incident.

[00:24:55] I dug up the actual report on the Internet

[00:24:59] and it's not really worth reading here because there aren't really any details in it.

[00:25:04] The investigators were unimpressed with Betty and Barney's

[00:25:08] citing because they didn't have any technical or scientific

[00:25:11] training to say what it is they were looking at.

[00:25:15] And the investigator concluded that the couple mistook the planet Jupiter

[00:25:19] for a UFO and filed the report with Project Blue Book.

[00:25:23] You know, Jupiter the most pancake of all the planets.

[00:25:26] Yeah, at this point, Barney wanted to drop it,

[00:25:29] but Betty felt they weren't being taken seriously.

[00:25:32] So according to an article on mental floss,

[00:25:35] Betty went to the local library and checked out a book

[00:25:37] about flying saucers by Donald Keough, a retired Marine Corps

[00:25:41] aviator and the co-founder of the National Investigations

[00:25:45] Committee on Aerial Phenomenon, which was the leading civilian UFO research group.

[00:25:51] The Hills read the book and reached out to Keough,

[00:25:53] who responded enthusiastically and invited them to tell their whole story.

[00:25:58] Another NICAP member, an astronomer named Walter Webb,

[00:26:02] spoke with the Hills for six hours straight.

[00:26:05] So they finally find somebody who seems like taking them seriously.

[00:26:09] You know, I started to get a little suspicious

[00:26:12] because they're pretty quickly involving UFO believers in this story.

[00:26:16] Yeah, who have it's advantageous for them to have this be a UFO

[00:26:21] and not, you know, a fucking magnified picture of Jupiter.

[00:26:24] Yeah, and when I say suspicious, I don't mean suspicious on behalf of the Hills.

[00:26:27] I just mean suspicious in terms of how this would color

[00:26:31] the story that they're telling over and over again.

[00:26:34] So anyway, they sit with Walter Webb for six hours and Donald Keough.

[00:26:38] And at this point, Betty starts having very frightening nightmares

[00:26:42] about being abducted and experimented on on this alien ship.

[00:26:46] And for the next year or so, the Hills make trips back up route three,

[00:26:51] looking for the site of their encounter and any clues that might help explain

[00:26:55] what happened to them.

[00:26:57] In addition to Betty's nightmares, Barney develops a really painful ulcer

[00:27:02] and weirdly a ring of warts around his genitals

[00:27:06] that needed to be surgically removed. Oh no, he's got a lot of

[00:27:10] seems like someone definitely was in and around his dick again.

[00:27:13] He's like, I'm missing semen.

[00:27:15] I got covered in fucking ringworms and words, everything else.

[00:27:18] It's like, what's that?

[00:27:19] What movies that were like, they go through the fucking bog

[00:27:22] and they're all covered in leeches.

[00:27:23] It's like, no one else, just me, really.

[00:27:24] The Great Panda Adventure.

[00:27:26] No, fuck. But it feels very much like that where it's like,

[00:27:28] oh, I got got ringworms.

[00:27:29] I got this, my fucking semen's taken.

[00:27:31] And Betty's like, oh, I'm good.

[00:27:33] I felt fine. I don't I didn't have anything.

[00:27:34] And it was like, why just me?

[00:27:36] Yeah, it's the life aquatic.

[00:27:38] That's the movie I was thinking of, the life aquatic with Steve Z. So.

[00:27:44] By December of 1963, so a little more than two years after their

[00:27:50] initial encounter, the Hills end up in the office of psychiatrist

[00:27:54] Benjamin Simon for help treating Betty's nightmares,

[00:27:57] apprehension, persistent anxiety and Barney's anxiety

[00:28:01] and insomnia ulcers and high blood pressure.

[00:28:04] So just to recap real quick for the listeners,

[00:28:06] this is a little more than two years after their initial

[00:28:09] encounter. And the only people they've spoken with are Keo

[00:28:14] and the Air Force, but they haven't gone public.

[00:28:17] They've been spending two years trying to figure this out.

[00:28:20] And now Benjamin Simon wants to help them out.

[00:28:23] They turn to Dr. Simon because here we go.

[00:28:26] He was an expert in Ed.

[00:28:28] Do you want to guess?

[00:28:29] I never remember the term transgressive meditation,

[00:28:33] translucent meditation.

[00:28:35] Well, I think you're thinking of hypnotic regression.

[00:28:38] Is that not what this is?

[00:28:40] That is what this is, although they called it therapeutic

[00:28:42] hypnosis at the time.

[00:28:44] Is he Canadian?

[00:28:45] No, he's American.

[00:28:46] Oh, a homegrown.

[00:28:48] I don't know if it was like, oh, on our 14 second honeymoon

[00:28:50] in Montreal, we met a, they got another therapist up there

[00:28:53] practicing and hypnotic transgressor or trans, whatever,

[00:28:56] hypnotic, smooth talking.

[00:28:58] Regression. Yeah.

[00:28:59] Well, Dr. Simon had used therapeutic hypnosis again

[00:29:02] as they called it extensively during World War Two to treat

[00:29:07] military psychiatric disorders when he was chief of neuropsychiatry

[00:29:12] at Mason General Hospital on Long Island.

[00:29:14] Yeah, when he was chief fucking scientist on the Montauk

[00:29:17] projects in fucking Long Island.

[00:29:19] Yeah, I was going to say this sounds like a guy who definitely

[00:29:22] killed people in unlicensed experiments in the basement

[00:29:26] of some hospital somewhere.

[00:29:27] 100 percent.

[00:29:29] Like somebody where you're like, you have what in jars?

[00:29:33] And it was like, doesn't matter now, but I have you name

[00:29:36] it, I have it in a jar.

[00:29:37] Homunculus.

[00:29:38] He's got homunculus in jars down there.

[00:29:40] He knows what the homunculus is buried in that place.

[00:29:43] Where that homunculus graveyard is.

[00:29:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:29:47] The Hills believed that the root of all their problems

[00:29:49] was the night they couldn't remember and they hoped

[00:29:51] Dr. Simon could help them dredge up whatever was down

[00:29:54] there in the dark.

[00:29:55] Now, like I said, Dr. Simon recorded these sessions

[00:29:58] and some of them are available on YouTube.

[00:30:01] So we're going to drop some audio in so you can hear

[00:30:03] the story from Betty and Barney themselves.

[00:30:06] But before we do, I want to introduce a new mantra

[00:30:08] to the show and tell me what you think of this.

[00:30:11] Maybe we might have to workshop this, but could we come back

[00:30:14] to the phrase undergoing hypnosis means fiction?

[00:30:18] Osmosis. Is there anything I mean, I know osmosis is

[00:30:22] I know what osmosis means.

[00:30:23] If I'm forced to describe it, I don't.

[00:30:25] But I do know it.

[00:30:26] So osmosis would be like, I can give you something through.

[00:30:30] I've seen Osmosis Jones is what I'm saying.

[00:30:32] Just.

[00:30:34] The classic film Osmosis Jones.

[00:30:36] I actually saw that in theaters.

[00:30:38] Who didn't? Who didn't do Frasier's Brothers in it?

[00:30:40] Oh, yeah. Yeah, dude.

[00:30:42] David Hyde Pierce, I think is the voice of Osmosis Jones,

[00:30:45] either friend or enemy.

[00:30:47] I can't recall at this moment.

[00:30:48] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anywho.

[00:30:50] This phrase to me. It's clever.

[00:30:52] Did you come up with it? Yeah.

[00:30:53] That's pretty good.

[00:30:54] I bring it up.

[00:30:54] I introduce it to remind people that the second you go under

[00:30:58] hypnosis, you open yourself up to incorporating details

[00:31:00] that are suggested to you by your environment,

[00:31:03] the hypnosis practitioner or the hypnotist

[00:31:05] and anything else that might be kicking around in your head.

[00:31:08] And again, that's not to say the Hills are lying

[00:31:10] about their experience, but it's really, really hard

[00:31:13] to say for sure what's actually a memory in this case

[00:31:15] and what is something else.

[00:31:17] One thing that immediately leaps out

[00:31:19] in published transcriptions of the sessions

[00:31:22] is that Barney is extremely paranoid

[00:31:24] about how he is perceived as a black man in Canada.

[00:31:27] How he was perceived when on the trip

[00:31:29] by Canadians he met.

[00:31:31] Yes, by the world in general,

[00:31:32] he was anxious and stressed and paranoid.

[00:31:35] Well, he does bring a fucking gun to Canada.

[00:31:38] Yeah, he had it with him

[00:31:41] because he wanted to have one on their trip.

[00:31:43] Okay, so he really did was like,

[00:31:44] I'm going into Canada fucking locked and loaded.

[00:31:47] Yeah, well, this exchange that he has with Dr. Simon,

[00:31:50] Barney says, we arrived at night at this motel

[00:31:52] and I did not notice any name on the motel.

[00:31:55] The thoughts that were going through my mind were,

[00:31:57] would they accept me?

[00:31:58] Because they might say they were filled up

[00:32:00] and I wondered if they were going to do this

[00:32:02] because I was prejudiced.

[00:32:04] The doctor says, because you were prejudiced,

[00:32:06] Barney says, because they were prejudiced.

[00:32:09] Doctor, because you are a Negro, Barney,

[00:32:12] because I am a Negro.

[00:32:14] So these concerns about race

[00:32:16] plague his entire recollection

[00:32:19] all the way up to his encounter with the spaceship.

[00:32:22] And even then he mentions that one of the aliens

[00:32:25] reminds him of a redheaded Irishman.

[00:32:27] And when the doctor presses him to explain this,

[00:32:30] Barney says, I think I know why

[00:32:32] because Irish are usually hostile to Negroes.

[00:32:34] Oh shit, and always wearing scarves.

[00:32:37] Yes, well, this is also the segment in the regression

[00:32:40] where he describes the Nazi like character as well.

[00:32:43] So he's seeing a redheaded Irishman,

[00:32:45] he's seeing a Nazi

[00:32:46] and Barney did have experience in World War II

[00:32:50] and not just experience,

[00:32:51] he actually was wearing dentures at this point in his life

[00:32:54] because he got concussed by a grenade blast

[00:32:57] and it had knocked his teeth out in World War II.

[00:32:59] So he had trauma from war,

[00:33:02] he had trauma from-

[00:33:03] Turning back to a country

[00:33:04] that didn't appreciate his service.

[00:33:06] Yeah, so there's a lot going on.

[00:33:08] Bringing a gun to a country where you're just like,

[00:33:10] I don't even know what I'm gonna encounter.

[00:33:12] Because if it's anything like the last fucking years

[00:33:14] of my life, I might want to be strapped.

[00:33:17] And that's unfortunate that all that

[00:33:19] has to go into these sessions with them.

[00:33:20] Yeah, well, and it's in these sessions,

[00:33:22] Barney recalls driving the car away from the UFO,

[00:33:28] but afterward feeling irresistibly compelled

[00:33:30] to pull off the road and drive into the woods

[00:33:33] where he eventually sees six men standing on a dirt road.

[00:33:37] The car stalls out,

[00:33:39] he can't turn it back on or turn it over,

[00:33:41] it just dies and three of the men approach the car.

[00:33:44] He said the being stared into his eyes

[00:33:46] with a terrifying mesmerizing effect.

[00:33:49] And under hypnosis, Barney says,

[00:33:50] oh, those eyes, they're there in my brain.

[00:33:54] He talks a lot about eyes actually.

[00:33:55] There's a couple of different quotes

[00:33:57] where he's referencing the feeling

[00:33:59] of these eyes pushing into his eyes

[00:34:02] and sort of the sensation of these men

[00:34:04] are reaching into his mind to control him somehow.

[00:34:08] Literally a piercing stare.

[00:34:10] Yes, yes.

[00:34:11] This next part we'll play in full.

[00:34:13] It's about three minutes of audio

[00:34:16] because it's the only description we have

[00:34:18] from Barney's perspective of what happened inside the ship.

[00:34:22] So without further ado,

[00:34:24] this is Barney Hill's recollection

[00:34:25] of what happened inside the ship.

[00:34:28] I don't wanna be operated on.

[00:34:31] You don't believe in operating on.

[00:34:35] What makes you think of an operation?

[00:34:38] I don't know.

[00:34:42] You were thinking about this when you were

[00:34:46] on the road.

[00:34:47] I was thinking about this

[00:34:51] when I was lying on my stomach.

[00:34:55] Where were you going on your stomach?

[00:35:02] I...

[00:35:07] I thought I was inside

[00:35:12] something, but I did not know

[00:35:15] what was inside the ship.

[00:35:17] I thought there opened my eyes.

[00:35:21] I had been told to keep my eyes closed

[00:35:24] to hold you up.

[00:35:32] The man

[00:35:36] was good

[00:35:40] that I saw

[00:35:43] a super binoculars.

[00:35:48] Was this one of the men in the road?

[00:35:51] No.

[00:35:53] Was it one of these men in the road?

[00:35:55] Or what part did they play with?

[00:35:58] They took me

[00:36:02] and carried me

[00:36:07] at this ramp.

[00:36:09] Did you feel you were going to be operated on?

[00:36:14] No.

[00:36:17] Did you feel you were going to be attacked in any way?

[00:36:21] No.

[00:36:23] I was lying on the table

[00:36:28] and

[00:36:30] my fly was open

[00:36:35] and

[00:36:37] I thought, are they putting a cup

[00:36:41] around my private parts?

[00:36:46] And

[00:36:50] then it stopped.

[00:36:56] And

[00:36:57] then

[00:37:04] I thought

[00:37:08] how funny.

[00:37:12] Speak a little louder, please.

[00:37:16] I thought how funny

[00:37:19] if I keep real quiet

[00:37:23] and real still

[00:37:28] I won't be harmed

[00:37:32] and it will be over.

[00:37:36] So Barney's next memory, basically,

[00:37:38] he remembers a little bit of being released from the ship

[00:37:41] and sort of making his way back to the car

[00:37:43] but his next memory is basically being back in the car

[00:37:46] and watching Betty walking back towards him.

[00:37:49] So let's go to Barney for that.

[00:37:52] And I sit back

[00:37:55] and

[00:37:57] I see Betty is coming down the road

[00:38:03] and

[00:38:05] she gets into the car

[00:38:08] and I am grinning at her

[00:38:11] and she is

[00:38:14] grinning back at me

[00:38:17] and we both see so

[00:38:20] he laid it

[00:38:22] and we are really happy

[00:38:27] and

[00:38:29] I'm thinking

[00:38:31] it isn't too bad.

[00:38:34] How funny

[00:38:36] I have no reason to fear

[00:38:40] and we look

[00:38:43] and

[00:38:45] I see a bright moon

[00:38:48] and I laugh and say

[00:38:52] well there it goes

[00:38:57] and I'm happy.

[00:39:00] But not all is so level headed in Barney's recollections.

[00:39:06] At times Barney gets extremely emotional

[00:39:09] when recounting his experience under hypnosis.

[00:39:12] For instance, this section when he describes the UFO

[00:39:15] getting close to them.

[00:39:17] It's a little fuzzy at the beginning here

[00:39:19] but he starts by saying he wants to wake up.

[00:39:22] I want to wake up

[00:39:25] you're not going to wake up

[00:39:27] you're in deep sleep

[00:39:29] you're comfortable, relaxed

[00:39:30] this is not going to tell you

[00:39:33] go on

[00:39:40] keep in mind everything now

[00:39:43] it's right over my right

[00:39:48] God

[00:39:52] what is it?

[00:39:57] and

[00:40:00] I try to maintain

[00:40:04] control so that he cannot tell I am scared

[00:40:09] God I'm scared

[00:40:12] it's alright

[00:40:14] you can go right on, experience it

[00:40:16] it will not hurt you

[00:40:20] I got to get my gun

[00:40:25] I got my gun

[00:40:27] alright

[00:40:29] alright that's all

[00:40:31] I got my gun

[00:40:34] notice what you're seeing

[00:40:36] you got your gun

[00:40:39] you got your gun

[00:40:41] you forgot it

[00:40:46] calm now, relaxed

[00:40:48] you can relax

[00:40:52] Part of the reason I think it's really interesting to hear this in their own words under hypnosis

[00:40:55] is because at least for me

[00:40:57] when I hear the stories of people's abductions

[00:41:00] or seeing a ghost

[00:41:01] or satanic panic

[00:41:02] or anything like that

[00:41:03] I think when you just read it

[00:41:05] it's one experience

[00:41:07] and when you hear it

[00:41:08] it's another experience

[00:41:09] because you both hear

[00:41:11] the emotion that's often missing from the text

[00:41:14] but you also hear

[00:41:16] the dreamlike vagueness of a lot of it

[00:41:18] that doesn't always come through in the text

[00:41:20] or even things that seem like

[00:41:22] might be stated as fact in the text

[00:41:24] of someone's interview

[00:41:26] or regression

[00:41:27] when you hear them say it

[00:41:29] it sounds not necessarily like a fact

[00:41:31] and then those pieces

[00:41:33] of interview

[00:41:35] get baked into articles

[00:41:37] and books on the subject

[00:41:38] and then become part of the story

[00:41:40] and they become repeated

[00:41:41] but then when you go back and listen to it

[00:41:43] you're like, oh this isn't necessarily

[00:41:45] it's extremely compelling

[00:41:46] but it's not necessarily as cut

[00:41:48] and dry as I thought it was

[00:41:50] so I think it's really interesting to hear it

[00:41:52] as it was when it came out

[00:41:54] so anyway

[00:41:56] that whole section is pretty disturbing hearing him scream like that

[00:41:59] and something that really sticks with me is that

[00:42:01] Dr. Simon took the completely reasonable

[00:42:04] step of making sure that Betty and Barney

[00:42:07] went through this hypnosis separately

[00:42:09] so he could compare notes on who said what

[00:42:11] and what lined up and what didn't

[00:42:13] but they did always come together

[00:42:15] so Betty

[00:42:17] was always sitting in the waiting room

[00:42:19] just hearing her husband scream like this

[00:42:21] and you know

[00:42:23] she was pretty torn up by the whole thing

[00:42:25] but interestingly

[00:42:27] Betty's recollections of all this

[00:42:29] of the experience were much more detailed

[00:42:32] in fact most of what we know

[00:42:34] about what happened on the ship

[00:42:36] comes from her perspective

[00:42:38] not Barney's

[00:42:39] one of the first things that jumps out

[00:42:41] from her hypnosis sessions is the description

[00:42:43] of how she was taken from the car

[00:42:45] and what she was told by the beings

[00:42:47] who did so

[00:42:49] she says

[00:42:51] he says don't be afraid

[00:42:55] you don't have any reason to be afraid

[00:42:59] we're not going to harm you

[00:43:02] but

[00:43:05] we just want to

[00:43:07] do some tests

[00:43:10] where the tests are over with

[00:43:13] we'll take you and body back

[00:43:15] and put you in your car

[00:43:17] and you'll be on your way

[00:43:19] back home at no time

[00:43:21] once she's on the ship

[00:43:23] Betty and Barney are separated

[00:43:25] into different rooms and a doctor

[00:43:27] as she calls him comes in to examine Betty

[00:43:30] she lays down

[00:43:32] on an examination table and the doctor brings over

[00:43:35] well let's just hear it from Betty

[00:43:38] I lie down

[00:43:40] on the table

[00:43:42] on my back

[00:43:44] and he brings over this

[00:43:47] uh

[00:43:52] uh

[00:43:54] oh how can I describe it

[00:43:58] they're like needles

[00:44:00] there's a whole cluster of needles

[00:44:02] and each needle has a wire

[00:44:05] running from it

[00:44:10] so then they roll me over

[00:44:14] on my back

[00:44:17] and

[00:44:21] and the examiner

[00:44:24] has a long needle

[00:44:27] in his hand

[00:44:30] and I see it's a needle

[00:44:32] and it's

[00:44:34] it's bigger than any needle I've ever seen

[00:44:38] and

[00:44:39] I ask him what he's going to do with it

[00:44:43] and he said just a simple test

[00:44:46] and he won't hurt me

[00:44:48] and I ask him what

[00:44:50] and he said he just wants to put it in my nail

[00:44:54] it's just a simple test

[00:44:57] and I don't know it will hurt

[00:45:00] I don't know it

[00:45:02] I don't know it

[00:45:03] and he said no it won't hurt

[00:45:06] and he takes a needle into my nail

[00:45:09] and it's

[00:45:16] and I cry and I tell him it's hurting

[00:45:19] it's hurting and hurting and hurting

[00:45:21] and it's a leader

[00:45:27] he goes over and he puts his hand

[00:45:30] rises in front of my eyes

[00:45:35] and he says I'll be alright

[00:45:37] I won't feel it

[00:45:42] if you couldn't make it out

[00:45:44] because this is one of the slightly fuzzier clips

[00:45:46] but Betty says

[00:45:48] the doctor inserted the largest needle

[00:45:50] she's ever seen

[00:45:52] into her navel

[00:45:54] she asked one of the beings who she called

[00:45:56] the leader why they did that to her

[00:45:58] and she was told it was a pregnancy test

[00:46:02] so this is the first appearance

[00:46:04] in UFO lore

[00:46:06] outside of the Boas case

[00:46:08] but this is from the female perspective

[00:46:11] because Boas had sex with a woman

[00:46:13] a female alien

[00:46:14] and it seemed like they were interested

[00:46:16] in taking his baby to space

[00:46:18] and for some reason these aliens seem interested

[00:46:20] in seeing if Betty is pregnant

[00:46:22] she's not

[00:46:23] they tell her she's not

[00:46:24] I don't know what year we started peeing on sticks

[00:46:26] but it seems way easier than whatever the fuck this is

[00:46:31] right so like yeah

[00:46:32] one of the curious things here is

[00:46:34] aliens seem to be way behind

[00:46:36] on pregnancy test technology

[00:46:38] I mean honestly if they put all that money

[00:46:40] and focus into space travel then

[00:46:42] I get it

[00:46:43] Betty also

[00:46:44] and this is another really fascinating

[00:46:46] element of this case I think

[00:46:48] she also recalled being shown

[00:46:50] a star map from the perspective

[00:46:52] of the aliens home planet

[00:46:55] and she would later draw

[00:46:57] that map

[00:46:59] one of the enduring mysteries of this case

[00:47:01] is that she drew it

[00:47:03] everybody said that's interesting

[00:47:05] but it wasn't until years later

[00:47:07] that a school teacher

[00:47:08] recognized the layout of the stars on the map

[00:47:11] and realized that it matched

[00:47:13] the sky map of the stars

[00:47:15] in the vicinity of Zeta reticuli

[00:47:17] which hadn't been discovered

[00:47:19] at the time of the Hills Abduction

[00:47:22] so Betty somehow drew a star map

[00:47:24] of stars that do exist

[00:47:26] that we didn't know existed

[00:47:28] in that order

[00:47:29] in the way you would see it from that place

[00:47:31] so it would be no different than

[00:47:33] us drawing a map of

[00:47:35] like if we drew a map of our night sky

[00:47:37] and we gave it to some dude in the fucking alpha zebulon

[00:47:39] or the hell you just said

[00:47:41] and they're like oh you must have drawn this from Earth

[00:47:43] because this is the star chart

[00:47:45] if you were standing on Earth

[00:47:47] and so you're saying that all these years later

[00:47:49] when they've now seen this sky for real

[00:47:51] with a telescope or whatever

[00:47:53] he's saying she drew a real thing

[00:47:55] like this isn't fake

[00:47:56] yes

[00:47:57] but we couldn't have known then

[00:47:59] back then they were like this is gibberish

[00:48:01] but it wasn't gibberish

[00:48:03] it was the machine from contact

[00:48:05] and there's images online

[00:48:07] of her drawing against the map

[00:48:09] and it's really convincing

[00:48:11] now that said

[00:48:13] the evidence hasn't really held up

[00:48:15] Carl Sagan himself pointed out

[00:48:17] that you could line up the stars Betty drew

[00:48:19] with lots of different points in the sky

[00:48:21] and kind of go oh yeah

[00:48:23] that sort of lines up

[00:48:25] and as more accurate models

[00:48:27] of the sky have been developed

[00:48:29] her drawing has become less accurate

[00:48:31] so the more definition

[00:48:33] we get of that section

[00:48:35] of the sky the less her drawing

[00:48:37] seems to resemble it

[00:48:39] I don't know as soon as we're done with this recording

[00:48:41] and someone asks me fucking in an hour

[00:48:43] what color was Chris's shirt

[00:48:45] I'm gonna get it wrong so

[00:48:47] I mean the fact that she got even close

[00:48:49] like that she remembered it at all

[00:48:51] it's an eerie coincidence

[00:48:53] I will also say though

[00:48:55] the way that she describes

[00:48:57] the star map being shown

[00:48:59] to her is so prosaic

[00:49:01] she says that he pulls the map

[00:49:03] down on the wall

[00:49:05] which I take to mean like in a

[00:49:07] school room you know you'd like pull a

[00:49:09] yeah you'd pull an old map down yeah

[00:49:11] yeah so it's like what

[00:49:13] I mean these people they're years behind on

[00:49:15] map technology and pregnancy tests

[00:49:17] yeah on pregnancy tests

[00:49:19] on map presentation options

[00:49:21] I hope they had that big wooden stick

[00:49:23] that our teachers used to have

[00:49:25] that they would like slap at that fucking map

[00:49:27] this map's supposed to be made from

[00:49:29] pretty interesting material probably found

[00:49:31] at the Roswell crash

[00:49:33] is what they made these maps out of

[00:49:35] cause people are always slapping them with those wooden sticks

[00:49:37] yeah that's the leap in technology

[00:49:39] that cannot be explained

[00:49:41] we got tin foil and strong classroom maps

[00:49:45] she also while Betty was on the ship

[00:49:47] after she's left alone

[00:49:49] with I forget if there's the character

[00:49:51] she called the doctor or the leader

[00:49:53] but after she was left alone with one of them

[00:49:55] she says to them

[00:49:57] I'd really like to take a souvenir with me

[00:49:59] because no one's gonna believe this

[00:50:01] her and the Brazilian trying to steal clocks

[00:50:03] yeah well

[00:50:05] the being that she spoke with said

[00:50:07] alright well there's lots of stuff in this

[00:50:09] room so if you see anything that you think

[00:50:11] you'd like you could take it with you

[00:50:13] and she pulls a book off the

[00:50:15] shelf and he laughs at her

[00:50:17] and says you don't think you can read that

[00:50:19] and she says no

[00:50:21] I just want something so that I

[00:50:23] can prove that this happened

[00:50:25] and then before she leaves it's taken away

[00:50:27] from her and they decide she can't have

[00:50:29] it sure but she did have the thought

[00:50:31] that she should try to take something with her

[00:50:33] yeah and something that like would reveal

[00:50:35] another language or would reveal

[00:50:37] again books you came

[00:50:39] across the fucking solar system

[00:50:41] you're sitting here with analog paper

[00:50:43] books like would you take the first

[00:50:45] spaceship your planet built

[00:50:47] are you in the 20,000 leagues

[00:50:49] under the sea ship

[00:50:51] like what the hell yeah she's like

[00:50:53] why do you have Moby Dick

[00:50:55] yeah why do you have the joys of cooking volume 1

[00:50:57] so

[00:50:59] anyway after months I think it's about

[00:51:01] five months of weekly sessions

[00:51:03] Dr. Simon comes to a conclusion

[00:51:05] and Ed you're not gonna believe this

[00:51:07] Satan has said this

[00:51:09] Dr. Simon came to the conclusion

[00:51:11] that Betty's experiences were just memories

[00:51:13] of her nightmares and that Barney's

[00:51:15] recollections were fantasies

[00:51:17] influenced by Betty's nightmares

[00:51:19] what hold on

[00:51:21] points to Dr. Simon I mean I thought you were

[00:51:23] gonna say that her shit was made up

[00:51:25] I thought it was gonna get like misogynistic fast

[00:51:27] no I thought it was gonna be like well the lady

[00:51:29] just thought it all up and the guy he

[00:51:31] but no I mean at least he says you're both idiots

[00:51:33] and you're an echo chamber

[00:51:35] to yourselves yes but also

[00:51:37] what I was gonna say is points to Dr. Simon

[00:51:39] for being the only hypnotherapist we've

[00:51:41] discussed on this show

[00:51:43] who isn't immediately writing this down

[00:51:45] and trying to sell a book oh true

[00:51:47] being like yeah yeah yeah let's think more about the aliens

[00:51:49] what else do you remember did they have laser guns

[00:51:51] are they coming back and the leader

[00:51:53] was it the leader of the doctor

[00:51:55] who cut off all of your friends limbs

[00:51:57] and made you drink their blood

[00:51:59] because I'm looking at

[00:52:01] a best seller on her hands if we can somehow

[00:52:03] get the devil in this

[00:52:05] please please

[00:52:07] anyway so now so they've gone to the Air Force

[00:52:09] and now they've gone to a psychiatrist

[00:52:11] who have all kind of

[00:52:13] poo pooed them and

[00:52:15] the doubt seems to lead the hills

[00:52:17] to kind of double down on their experience

[00:52:19] and their desire to prove that it happened

[00:52:21] so they start to share their

[00:52:23] story with others first just a small church group

[00:52:25] and then they give a talk

[00:52:27] to a UFO group based out of

[00:52:29] Quincy, Massachusetts

[00:52:31] I do think it's tough that they have to deal with

[00:52:33] so many institutions

[00:52:35] like true institutions a medical

[00:52:37] institution has rigorous thought

[00:52:39] process on what isn't

[00:52:41] you know whatever

[00:52:43] religious institutions have rigorous

[00:52:45] thought process on what is and isn't whatever

[00:52:47] the military has rigorous

[00:52:49] you know it's weird like they have to go to these

[00:52:51] like three hierarchical

[00:52:53] yeah you know what I mean it's like you're going to some

[00:52:55] staunch people to say

[00:52:57] some out there ideas and some out there

[00:52:59] shit but I guess when you go to anyone

[00:53:01] who isn't that you go to the UFO group

[00:53:03] they're just like fucking jerking themselves off

[00:53:05] with excitement so yeah it's tough to find

[00:53:07] a non-partial person

[00:53:09] to speak to about it

[00:53:11] you get the sense that they were really trying to do this by the

[00:53:13] book you know they were trying to do this by the

[00:53:15] book to get an explanation and they just

[00:53:17] weren't it's sort of like when somebody

[00:53:19] you know has an illness that

[00:53:21] doctors can't quite put their finger on

[00:53:23] and then they go to

[00:53:25] a new age person who's like

[00:53:27] yeah you know you have some

[00:53:29] psychosomatic disease that may or

[00:53:31] may not exist or

[00:53:33] you know like you have more Jellans disease and it's like

[00:53:35] no they probably are

[00:53:37] sick but the institution

[00:53:39] the medical institution isn't giving them

[00:53:41] any help so they're going to someone who's

[00:53:43] going to believe them and say you know

[00:53:45] we believe you're sick and here's a crystal

[00:53:47] to fix it but these people have it they haven't done

[00:53:49] that yet they've gone to all of the

[00:53:51] traditional avenues of

[00:53:53] and again like not to make money

[00:53:55] which is interesting at this point they are just

[00:53:57] like listen all we know is

[00:53:59] we're missing a long track of time

[00:54:01] and however we were before this

[00:54:03] event is not who we are now

[00:54:05] yeah because we can't

[00:54:07] stop ourselves from trying to figure out

[00:54:09] why we're different and no one

[00:54:11] has been able to fill in these fucking hours

[00:54:13] right and that's kind of what that

[00:54:15] book that I encourage everyone to read

[00:54:17] gets into is the question of

[00:54:19] how much like this were

[00:54:21] they actually already like what

[00:54:23] you just said we're looking for someone to try

[00:54:25] to explain to us why we're so different

[00:54:27] like they were different

[00:54:29] because they were a mixed race couple

[00:54:31] and the book really explores

[00:54:33] the pressures that that put on them

[00:54:35] before all of this

[00:54:37] because they were always presented as

[00:54:39] hey look these two pretty normal people

[00:54:41] had this crazy thing happen to them

[00:54:43] but the book argues

[00:54:45] they've been having crazy things happen to them for years

[00:54:47] and

[00:54:49] this was some sort of a

[00:54:51] psychological expression

[00:54:53] of that and I think it's really interesting

[00:54:55] and if it ended up not being aliens

[00:54:57] something nefarious and very terrestrial

[00:54:59] I think there is

[00:55:01] definitely an argument to be made

[00:55:03] and we're not going to get into it here because we're not fucking

[00:55:05] professionals in any field

[00:55:07] but I think there's probably an argument to be made

[00:55:09] that in the communities

[00:55:11] at this time when they lived

[00:55:13] the church fucking predominantly white neighborhoods

[00:55:15] fucking

[00:55:17] law enforcement would have you

[00:55:19] and perceptions in

[00:55:21] probably the black community as well

[00:55:23] you know what it's just easier maybe to say aliens

[00:55:25] there's probably shit at this time where it's like

[00:55:27] it's easier just to say aliens

[00:55:29] than some other

[00:55:31] fucking thing that might have happened and it's just

[00:55:33] a horrible situation

[00:55:35] to be put in. Yeah

[00:55:37] so at this point a columnist

[00:55:39] from the Boston Herald Traveler

[00:55:41] catches wind of their story this guy John LaTrell

[00:55:43] he gets an

[00:55:45] audio tape from the UFO lecture that the

[00:55:47] Hills had given and

[00:55:49] he has some notes from other UFO investigators

[00:55:51] as sources and with this information

[00:55:53] LaTrell publishes a column

[00:55:55] on the Hills that gets nationwide

[00:55:57] attention and then United Press

[00:55:59] International picks up the column it goes

[00:56:01] global and boom

[00:56:03] the modern alien abduction was born

[00:56:05] and how many years after the event is this

[00:56:07] like three four because they

[00:56:09] spent two years trying to find the location

[00:56:11] then they went and talked to a bunch of doctors

[00:56:13] yeah they were abducted in 61

[00:56:15] at the end of 61 and this

[00:56:17] story came out in 65 so yeah four years

[00:56:19] about four years yeah they did

[00:56:21] end up eventually the Hills wrote a book

[00:56:23] so you know they did do some

[00:56:25] press around it but they never sought out

[00:56:27] the spotlight really but yeah

[00:56:29] their story gave birth to the modern

[00:56:31] alien abduction the dark lonely

[00:56:33] setting floating into the ship

[00:56:35] the experiments the pregnancy test

[00:56:37] and the returning home with missing time

[00:56:39] and memories erased. Watches stopped

[00:56:41] I've seen that in a million things

[00:56:43] yeah it's all there and it's all

[00:56:45] there's somebody writing about it

[00:56:47] who I'm gonna paraphrase and butcher

[00:56:49] it but there was somebody writing about how

[00:56:51] one of the most exciting and interesting

[00:56:53] things outside of the alien aspects

[00:56:55] of this story is that it's one of the rare

[00:56:57] instances where we really

[00:56:59] can trace the birth

[00:57:01] of a legend to

[00:57:03] the story of one in this

[00:57:05] case two people and we know

[00:57:07] the moment in the psychiatrist's office

[00:57:09] that these stories came out of their mouths

[00:57:11] and we really can trace

[00:57:13] almost every alien abduction

[00:57:15] to that template

[00:57:17] yeah I mean we've seen this. Except

[00:57:19] the only person's

[00:57:21] story you can't argue was influenced

[00:57:23] by the Hill's

[00:57:25] story is Antonio

[00:57:27] Vias Boas who was abducted

[00:57:29] in 1957

[00:57:31] and what's really interesting to me

[00:57:33] is that the details are

[00:57:35] very different but he talks

[00:57:37] about a lot of the same things

[00:57:39] like there were medical experiments

[00:57:41] blood was drawn from his chin he had sex

[00:57:43] with a woman on the ship who indicated

[00:57:45] she was going to take their baby to space

[00:57:47] and here the Hill's had different medical

[00:57:49] experiments performed but there's

[00:57:51] this very similar

[00:57:53] aspect and there's no way

[00:57:55] you know his story was only ever

[00:57:57] made famous after the Hill's

[00:57:59] so there's no way the Hill's had ever heard

[00:58:01] his story and so I think it's

[00:58:03] interesting that they're both dealing with this

[00:58:05] same sort of medical

[00:58:07] and sexual curiosity

[00:58:09] from another planet.

[00:58:11] Yeah so the Venn diagram of these

[00:58:13] two UFO stories is

[00:58:15] we got some perverts out there

[00:58:17] in the sky. Yeah, yeah

[00:58:19] they're wearing trench coats. Yeah we got a

[00:58:21] couple of perverts when they came to Brazil

[00:58:23] maybe they were like a lone group

[00:58:25] they went back to where they're from

[00:58:27] and they're like it's pretty wild down there

[00:58:29] just we can be making babies pretty regularly

[00:58:31] and then now you have the Betty

[00:58:33] and Barney Hill story where like now they're coming

[00:58:35] back a little bit more uniformed

[00:58:37] they got the same uniforms on their shits together

[00:58:39] you know the military is here to be like

[00:58:41] fuck anyone? Who's semen can we take?

[00:58:43] Everyone's? And it's like

[00:58:45] alright we'll check it out, we'll go to Earth

[00:58:47] Space is brothel. Maybe, yeah

[00:58:49] there's that theory that we're like

[00:58:51] a backwater planet. Yeah, yeah, yeah

[00:58:53] and that's where the red light district of the universe

[00:58:55] Oh man. But the fact that

[00:58:57] those similarities

[00:58:59] are in place in both of these stories

[00:59:01] makes me think that one of four things

[00:59:03] almost has to be

[00:59:05] true. First

[00:59:07] alien abductions happen

[00:59:09] when they're real and there is some

[00:59:11] extraterrestrial biological interest

[00:59:13] in the human body

[00:59:15] second, there's some

[00:59:17] patient zero piece of media out there

[00:59:19] that influenced both

[00:59:21] Boas and the Hill story

[00:59:23] with regard to alien interests

[00:59:25] in our biology and reproductive systems

[00:59:27] there is some evidence that

[00:59:29] there was an episode of the outer limits that it just aired

[00:59:31] a few weeks before the Hills encounter

[00:59:33] and it didn't feature an abduction

[00:59:35] but the aliens on the show do look

[00:59:37] suspiciously like the aliens

[00:59:39] described and would later draw

[00:59:41] but the content of the episode doesn't have

[00:59:43] abductions or experiments and Boas wouldn't

[00:59:45] have seen that episode before

[00:59:47] he was abducted so I don't think it's that

[00:59:49] Well, the one with John Carter and Mars

[00:59:51] I mean that's like during the Civil War is that Edgar

[00:59:53] Rice Burroughs? It's Edgar Rice Burroughs

[00:59:55] Did that motherfucker, he was abducted if you think

[00:59:57] about he was taken to Mars

[00:59:59] where he had to like fight and save a princess

[01:00:01] but it what that's the 1800s man

[01:00:03] and he went to a different celestial

[01:00:05] body and I'm pretty sure he fucked that princess

[01:00:07] But what I'm curious about though

[01:00:09] is the specificity

[01:00:11] of the fertility

[01:00:13] and the medical experimentation

[01:00:15] elements

[01:00:17] That feels new. Yes, the scientific

[01:00:19] angle of it

[01:00:21] not just a human got swept

[01:00:23] kind of off the battlefield into

[01:00:25] a different battlefield where he's fighting

[01:00:27] a different kind of Civil War

[01:00:29] The third option is that somehow

[01:00:31] Boas' story influenced the Hills

[01:00:33] story which like I already said I find extremely

[01:00:35] unlikely because there's no way

[01:00:37] the Hills had ever heard about his story

[01:00:39] Or, for

[01:00:41] There is something deeply

[01:00:43] primal going on in our brains

[01:00:45] that we don't fully understand

[01:00:47] that causes some people

[01:00:49] to have these experiences even if

[01:00:51] they aren't objectively

[01:00:53] real experiences

[01:00:55] Like there's some almost

[01:00:57] Jungian obsession with

[01:00:59] fertility and experiments and others

[01:01:01] that is rattling around

[01:01:03] in our subconscious causing

[01:01:05] havoc. Well I mean loneliness is a killer

[01:01:07] and so maybe

[01:01:09] I don't know but like I'm just saying

[01:01:11] maybe some people just want interaction

[01:01:13] even if the interaction is negative

[01:01:15] Yeah, maybe. I mean

[01:01:17] I feel like the Hills had plenty of interaction

[01:01:19] with each other. Oh no, I mean you're saying

[01:01:21] that people. I thought you were just saying that humanity

[01:01:23] might have this deep set

[01:01:25] like lizard brain

[01:01:27] Is that what you were saying from number four?

[01:01:29] Yeah, kind of. But I guess I don't

[01:01:31] I think there is possibly that lizard brain

[01:01:33] aspect to it. I don't know that loneliness

[01:01:35] necessarily has anything to do with it

[01:01:37] Well I was making a half joke but also

[01:01:39] not the dumbest theory in the world

[01:01:41] No, no, not the dumbest theory in the world

[01:01:43] There's one other interesting possibility

[01:01:45] that's been floated

[01:01:47] that I don't think explains everything

[01:01:49] but I do think is

[01:01:51] an interesting possibility

[01:01:53] that it could explain part of it

[01:01:55] and that theory is that Barney's experience

[01:01:57] at least may have been something else

[01:01:59] getting unlocked deep

[01:02:01] in his psyche. Accidental

[01:02:03] awareness of a tonsillectomy

[01:02:05] he'd had a few years prior

[01:02:07] Accidental awareness Ed, have you ever heard this term?

[01:02:09] No, I mean it's kind of amazing

[01:02:11] two words smashed together but

[01:02:13] yeah so like

[01:02:15] accidental awareness

[01:02:17] of a medical procedure? Is it like

[01:02:19] you wake up when you're supposed to be asleep?

[01:02:21] Yes. Oh okay, jeez

[01:02:23] So new fear that we

[01:02:25] have done an episode on that maybe we should

[01:02:27] Accidental

[01:02:29] awareness is the medical term for

[01:02:31] waking up during an operation

[01:02:33] and until the last few decades it was

[01:02:35] really pretty rarely studied

[01:02:37] whether or not these cases

[01:02:39] are the basis for alien abduction

[01:02:41] nightmares as one 2008

[01:02:43] study suggests we do

[01:02:45] know that the emotional and psychological

[01:02:47] effect of an accidental

[01:02:49] awareness experience is

[01:02:51] just as terrifying as any

[01:02:53] alien abduction experience one might have

[01:02:55] Oh 100%

[01:02:57] and it probably shares a lot of the same imagery

[01:02:59] I'm laying on a lab

[01:03:01] table there's a bright white light above

[01:03:03] me I'm seeing people with masks

[01:03:05] on I'm only getting their eyes

[01:03:07] everyone seems confused

[01:03:09] and scared the only difference

[01:03:11] is when it happens with aliens

[01:03:13] they're like whatever the f**king alien

[01:03:15] language is and maybe

[01:03:17] if it's a language you're familiar

[01:03:19] with a terrestrial language you can hear

[01:03:21] like f**k do you have insurance

[01:03:23] what do we do with this person

[01:03:25] so we need to

[01:03:27] get rid of the body

[01:03:29] and that's all absolutely 100%

[01:03:31] that's the theory is that it does sound

[01:03:33] a lot like the visuals of an abduction

[01:03:35] I thought this quote was really telling

[01:03:37] because it describes the emotional

[01:03:39] journey of

[01:03:41] an alien abduction experience

[01:03:43] this patient this accidental awareness

[01:03:45] patient describes his flashback

[01:03:47] to the ordeal like this

[01:03:49] it struck again days later

[01:03:51] as horrifying images

[01:03:53] and terror that rose from the depths

[01:03:55] of my being I was once

[01:03:57] again in the grips of horror again

[01:03:59] not comprehending again trapped

[01:04:01] again struggling to survive

[01:04:03] yet wishing for death

[01:04:05] forget it forget it it's f**king the worse

[01:04:07] it's the worst yeah the only thing

[01:04:09] that's worse than a thing

[01:04:11] that I've always thought about and now

[01:04:13] have an official term for

[01:04:15] would be an accidental

[01:04:17] awareness whilst

[01:04:19] also not being able to move and speak

[01:04:21] where it's like no one knows

[01:04:23] you're accidentally wearing it that's like a

[01:04:25] top five terrible fear for me

[01:04:27] that I don't luckily

[01:04:29] have to go under do any kind of surgery

[01:04:31] and stuff and anyone I know who's an anesthesiologist

[01:04:33] and they pay a lot in premiums or whatever

[01:04:35] for insurance purposes but

[01:04:37] it is so f**king scary

[01:04:39] and yeah you must have insane PTSD

[01:04:41] from that well yeah you have to go

[01:04:43] to sleep every night yeah well this like so

[01:04:45] every time you wake up you're like oh is it the time

[01:04:47] I wake up again with a f**king tube

[01:04:49] down my throat right I mean part of the

[01:04:51] theory is that you know until

[01:04:53] pretty recently most accidental

[01:04:55] awareness the doctors didn't

[01:04:57] know whether you were paralyzed or not

[01:04:59] well I guess most of them probably were but

[01:05:01] like that no one necessarily knew

[01:05:03] essentially you would wake up

[01:05:05] have this horrific experience

[01:05:07] bury it so that when

[01:05:09] you come to like you're not remembering

[01:05:11] that insane level of trauma

[01:05:13] of being awake during a surgery and then

[01:05:15] you start having nightmares about it that

[01:05:17] are the scariest thing imaginable

[01:05:19] and that most people never would

[01:05:21] have put two and two together because

[01:05:23] the nightmares would be so distorted

[01:05:25] they wouldn't go oh hey I bet

[01:05:27] I woke up during my surgery

[01:05:29] you know they're just like what the f**k is this

[01:05:31] because it comes up you know five ten years later

[01:05:33] interesting like you think maybe

[01:05:35] they came to the pain was so great

[01:05:37] what have you they just passed out again and then it's

[01:05:39] yeah yeah that sucks I mean I know

[01:05:41] this is an episode about alien abduction but now my brain

[01:05:43] is just fully in the head

[01:05:45] space of that other

[01:05:47] more horrible terrifying

[01:05:49] could happen to you much more

[01:05:51] readily yeah then f**king being

[01:05:53] abducted we'll probably we'll probably do an episode

[01:05:55] on we're gonna have to now but I'll get

[01:05:57] this spaceship back on the tracks by saying

[01:05:59] essentially this theory

[01:06:01] it makes sense to me the theory

[01:06:03] would go something like this

[01:06:05] the hills are coming back from their trip

[01:06:07] that has been stressful from the moment

[01:06:09] they left without even going to the bank

[01:06:11] they saw something in the sky

[01:06:13] probably a misidentified plane

[01:06:15] they lose track of time

[01:06:17] as they're stopping and

[01:06:19] driving and it's dark

[01:06:21] and they get home

[01:06:23] exhausted and woozy

[01:06:25] way after they plan to

[01:06:27] and between the strange sighting

[01:06:29] the lateness of the hour

[01:06:31] and possibly Barney's concerns about

[01:06:33] racial tensions plaguing them

[01:06:35] or whatever he experienced in the diner

[01:06:37] the couple is feeling

[01:06:39] anxious it feels to them

[01:06:41] like something bad just happened

[01:06:43] even though they can't remember what

[01:06:45] Betty starts having nightmares

[01:06:47] that express as alien

[01:06:49] because her sister saw UFO

[01:06:51] and she feels they just saw UFO

[01:06:53] so she tells Barney

[01:06:55] about the nightmares

[01:06:57] and the constant delving into

[01:06:59] and searching of his own memory

[01:07:01] to see if he remembers aliens

[01:07:03] scratch the surface of an actually

[01:07:05] repressed trauma

[01:07:07] waking up during an operation

[01:07:09] and once that opens up then they're just

[01:07:11] echo chamber oh shit what happened to us

[01:07:13] all of that for me

[01:07:15] is perfectly adequate

[01:07:17] but it doesn't explain any physical evidence

[01:07:19] doesn't explain the holes

[01:07:21] in the back of the car doesn't explain any ripped shirts

[01:07:23] doesn't explain the studio 54

[01:07:25] come draining

[01:07:27] powder festival

[01:07:29] whatever the hell they have exactly well

[01:07:31] and that's one of the hardest things

[01:07:33] I found in researching this story

[01:07:35] pinning down

[01:07:37] how much the hills remembered

[01:07:39] of that night before

[01:07:41] they started meeting with sympathetic

[01:07:43] UFO people and hypnotherapists

[01:07:45] and trying to figure out

[01:07:47] how many details got added

[01:07:49] along the way

[01:07:51] because when they reported

[01:07:53] to the air force the day after

[01:07:55] two days after whatever it was

[01:07:57] there's not a lot of details there

[01:07:59] and they have since said that they didn't give details

[01:08:01] because they were afraid they wouldn't be believed

[01:08:03] but I wonder if there were really

[01:08:05] if there just weren't that many details

[01:08:07] to give and some of these

[01:08:09] things got picked up over

[01:08:11] the course of the years that they were trying

[01:08:13] to figure out exactly what happened

[01:08:15] but something must have happened

[01:08:17] I mean I don't think you go

[01:08:19] to the air force you know

[01:08:21] you take time out of your day

[01:08:23] you prepare yourself to not be believed

[01:08:25] by people of authority

[01:08:27] you know you're already living in this

[01:08:29] fucking everybody's judge

[01:08:31] in us relationship so

[01:08:33] something must have happened enough

[01:08:35] where we want to get a file done

[01:08:37] my question is basically just

[01:08:39] if you'd ask the hills the night they pulled

[01:08:41] into that driveway two hours later

[01:08:43] than they should have

[01:08:45] if you ask them what did you see

[01:08:47] would they have said oh my god we're so tired

[01:08:49] and I think we saw this weird thing

[01:08:51] that looked like a UFO and it was kind of following us

[01:08:53] and you know, amzonked

[01:08:55] or how much of the

[01:08:57] story would they have remembered

[01:08:59] up to them being abducted if you'd ask them

[01:09:01] that night and the evolution

[01:09:03] of that story is not well documented

[01:09:05] as far as I can tell

[01:09:07] I mean whether it's getting drugged

[01:09:09] or being abducted

[01:09:11] I think there's an argument to be made

[01:09:13] that any kind of serious trauma

[01:09:15] on the body internally or externally

[01:09:17] it's like yeah

[01:09:19] you might very well be groggy

[01:09:21] if it was just these fucking they got jumped

[01:09:23] by some people and got drugged

[01:09:25] and I have a fresh recollection of fresh memories

[01:09:27] until a day or two later

[01:09:29] you know

[01:09:31] yeah I'm curious someone's probably written about this

[01:09:33] I am curious if there's any evidence

[01:09:35] that at some point as they were

[01:09:37] stopping and looking at this thing

[01:09:39] with binoculars if somebody

[01:09:41] saw them or started following them

[01:09:43] either to rob them

[01:09:45] or because they didn't like

[01:09:47] that they saw a mixed race couple

[01:09:49] and that something went down

[01:09:51] because it does seem like something went down

[01:09:53] because there was some weird physical evidence

[01:09:55] yeah the broken straps

[01:09:57] the scuffs yeah like it seems like

[01:09:59] something happened to them

[01:10:01] and I wonder if maybe

[01:10:03] they just were preyed upon

[01:10:05] by somebody out there

[01:10:07] or some group of people out there

[01:10:09] and it got warped into this alien story

[01:10:11] or maybe they got abducted by aliens

[01:10:13] my hope at this point is they were abducted by aliens

[01:10:15] because I hate when people do shitty things to other people

[01:10:17] but

[01:10:19] like I was kind of saying earlier depending on your surroundings

[01:10:21] and your support group you know what have you

[01:10:23] there are times when like tossing an alien

[01:10:25] in the mix can maybe seem like a good idea

[01:10:27] and I don't say that as a joke

[01:10:29] I don't envy anyone who feels like they would need to do that

[01:10:31] but like

[01:10:33] the end of Deliverance to not give anything away

[01:10:35] doesn't

[01:10:37] you don't follow these people

[01:10:39] beyond this evening so

[01:10:41] it could very well be

[01:10:43] the after-credit sequence

[01:10:45] of Deliverance is

[01:10:47] we just tell people it was aliens right

[01:10:49] to explain everything

[01:10:51] that we're coming back with

[01:10:53] and the people who died and what have you

[01:10:55] I don't want to give anything away

[01:10:57] I know this movie has been out for 50 years or whatever

[01:10:59] but yeah I could see a world

[01:11:01] where some very human fucked up shit happened

[01:11:03] and then they say this

[01:11:05] but again they're gonna have to tell the air force something

[01:11:07] they're gonna have to tell the psychiatrist

[01:11:09] something and the fact that nothing came

[01:11:11] out of the hypnosis sessions

[01:11:13] nothing slipped let's say

[01:11:15] of

[01:11:17] a couple of people drugged us

[01:11:19] or we remember a second set of headlights

[01:11:21] coming down

[01:11:23] but they do say they met six people in the woods

[01:11:25] or whatever but I guess those are aliens

[01:11:27] but I do think I'm giving me alien

[01:11:29] story to benefit of the doubt because

[01:11:31] under hypnosis they didn't let it slip

[01:11:33] I guess that they were

[01:11:35] harboring a secret that they just had like a real

[01:11:37] shit night in the woods with a bunch of fucking creeps

[01:11:39] yeah and that's Star Map

[01:11:41] and the Star Map thing Star Map gets me

[01:11:43] and I'd be interested because

[01:11:45] this is 1961

[01:11:47] I mean yeah we have

[01:11:49] science fiction media we have World of Worlds

[01:11:51] we have potentially

[01:11:53] television shows that are addressing

[01:11:55] intergalactic beings I guess

[01:11:57] but fucking

[01:11:59] so many elements that

[01:12:01] are part of the story as you mentioned earlier

[01:12:03] that would become tropes

[01:12:05] down the road but at the time

[01:12:07] just didn't fucking exist

[01:12:09] it's kind of crazy to think

[01:12:11] that they're gonna cover up

[01:12:13] another story with like

[01:12:15] a fucking Elron Hubbard level

[01:12:17] you know science fiction

[01:12:19] story just to

[01:12:21] regular ass people who don't have

[01:12:23] jobs in they're not even school teachers

[01:12:25] or like storytellers or radio people

[01:12:27] or entertainment people it seems like an

[01:12:29] insane amount of details to come up

[01:12:31] with and unless they go back to Barney

[01:12:33] and Betty's house and it's like you got a lot

[01:12:35] of science fiction books on these walls

[01:12:37] I mean I think even if those details

[01:12:39] were coming out of their minds I think they were

[01:12:41] coming subconsciously I don't think at any

[01:12:43] point they sat down and said hey

[01:12:45] here's the story we're gonna agree on

[01:12:47] especially when you go back and listen to those

[01:12:49] tapes something is pouring

[01:12:51] out of them we just may never know

[01:12:53] what I mean there are difficult subjects

[01:12:55] you have a woman who is

[01:12:57] a social worker essentially correct yeah

[01:12:59] they're hearing fucking terrible

[01:13:01] stories all day new

[01:13:03] stories all day what have you then

[01:13:05] you have a veteran of World War two

[01:13:07] yeah who also has a lot of racial

[01:13:09] strife issues yeah if there's

[01:13:11] a lot to pour out of two

[01:13:13] individuals I would say

[01:13:15] great candidates to just

[01:13:17] really need to sit back

[01:13:19] and let a lot pour out I would say

[01:13:21] it's a veteran with a stressful

[01:13:23] job yeah who has

[01:13:25] external stresses outside of their work

[01:13:27] in military record yeah and a woman

[01:13:29] with a stressful job who's heard a lot of

[01:13:31] fucking messed up shit yeah

[01:13:33] but we have some other stories to get

[01:13:35] to this episode so we will

[01:13:37] move on for now from the hills

[01:13:39] but yeah absolutely fascinating

[01:13:41] story

[01:13:47] another alien abduction story

[01:13:49] that I've always found really interesting

[01:13:51] that's a little bit less well known

[01:13:53] is the pascagoula abduction

[01:13:55] now no one has

[01:13:57] done as culturally astute a

[01:13:59] dive into this case as Matthew Bowman

[01:14:01] did with the hills in his book

[01:14:03] but someone should because

[01:14:05] I think there is a big

[01:14:07] southern gothic story to tell

[01:14:09] about myths masculinity

[01:14:11] and cultural expectations in the American

[01:14:13] south our abductees

[01:14:15] this time are a 42 year

[01:14:17] old man named Charlie Hickson

[01:14:19] and a 19 year old man named Calvin

[01:14:21] Parker Charlie died in

[01:14:23] 2011 all right be God bless

[01:14:25] all right be God bless but Calvin is still

[01:14:27] alive and has started to open up

[01:14:29] about the abduction for really the first

[01:14:31] time in his life there's an article

[01:14:33] that I'm going to quote heavily from here

[01:14:35] well basically I'm just going to

[01:14:37] read it which I never do but this is a

[01:14:39] really great article built around one of

[01:14:41] the only extensive interviews with Charlie

[01:14:43] so it's an incredible

[01:14:45] source it's called the pascagoula

[01:14:47] abduction written by Alexandra

[01:14:49] Kenan Shaheen and originally

[01:14:51] published in country roads

[01:14:53] magazine September 2021

[01:14:55] it begins

[01:14:57] for 46 years I kept it a secret

[01:14:59] I didn't even tell my wife about

[01:15:01] it Calvin Parker told me in his

[01:15:03] thick Mississippi accent referring

[01:15:05] to the evening of October 11th

[01:15:07] 1973 that evening

[01:15:09] Parker was fishing on the pascagoula

[01:15:11] river with his friend Charlie Hickson

[01:15:13] it was his first day on the job

[01:15:15] at F. B. Walker and son's shipyard

[01:15:17] a job Hickson had helped him

[01:15:19] get he was 19 years old

[01:15:21] his wedding was a month away with

[01:15:23] aspirations to live a simple life

[01:15:25] he says quote I wanted to get married

[01:15:27] wanted to have children wanted to have

[01:15:29] children wanted to buy a house to retire

[01:15:31] and fish he says now

[01:15:33] 67 over the phone from the back porch

[01:15:35] of his current home in Moss Point, Mississippi

[01:15:37] it had all started

[01:15:39] when Hickson asked Parker

[01:15:41] if he wanted to go fishing after

[01:15:43] work Parker knew

[01:15:45] to town hadn't brought his fishing gear

[01:15:47] with him so Hickson offered to loan

[01:15:49] him some of his now for a man

[01:15:51] that loves to fish from the south to

[01:15:53] offer you use of his fishing equipment

[01:15:55] that's like him offering you his wife

[01:15:57] Parker said just unheard of

[01:15:59] the article continues

[01:16:01] the men tried fishing in one location

[01:16:03] but the swarming bugs prompted them

[01:16:05] to head back to the shipyard where there were

[01:16:07] fewer lights to attract insects

[01:16:09] Parker pointed out posted

[01:16:11] signs to Hickson when they pulled up

[01:16:13] but Hickson brushed off his concerns about breaking

[01:16:15] the law and said that don't mean nothing

[01:16:17] I fish here all the time

[01:16:19] they walked down to the old pier

[01:16:21] cast out their lines and waited for a bite

[01:16:23] I distinctly remember

[01:16:25] I was looking at a boat across

[01:16:27] I think it was an old ore boat that they do the

[01:16:29] weather with and it was made out of steel

[01:16:31] and I was thinking to myself now how does

[01:16:33] something made out of steel float

[01:16:35] Parker remembered that's where my mind was

[01:16:37] and that's what I noticed the blue hazy

[01:16:39] lights coming in from behind

[01:16:41] you could see the reflection across the water

[01:16:43] thinking the lights were the police he turned

[01:16:45] to Hickson and said Charlie we

[01:16:47] in trouble you lied to me and

[01:16:49] we fixin to go to jail so this is the

[01:16:51] 19 year old saying this yeah he's

[01:16:53] Parker yeah so Parker's 19 year old

[01:16:55] so he's not like the smartest guy he's just

[01:16:57] looking at a boat being like what the fuck

[01:16:59] does that work I

[01:17:01] I don't know maybe and have you ever

[01:17:03] heard of people going to jail for

[01:17:05] fishing in the dark I haven't

[01:17:07] I mean I know my dad has to

[01:17:09] get like his fishing license

[01:17:11] re-upped and stuff I think there is some

[01:17:13] bureaucracy involved with fishing

[01:17:15] and fishing seasons and

[01:17:17] for all I know I guess there could be

[01:17:19] something where it's like you can't fish somewhere

[01:17:21] because it's a I mean I don't know this is

[01:17:23] 70s in Mississippi I don't know how much

[01:17:25] like environmental protection stuff there was

[01:17:27] but like you know there's I think

[01:17:29] there's elements where you could certainly be

[01:17:31] fined but like oh no we're going

[01:17:33] to jail is yeah that's a little

[01:17:35] much yeah I mean Parker I guess was

[01:17:37] concerned in any case

[01:17:39] but it doesn't really matter I guess

[01:17:41] what he was so worried about because

[01:17:43] when the men stood up and turned around

[01:17:45] they said they didn't see police cars

[01:17:47] but instead a long oveular

[01:17:49] he was in a craft floating around

[01:17:51] two feet from the ground

[01:17:53] emitting a blindingly bright light

[01:17:55] he described two of the creatures

[01:17:57] grabbing Hickson and one grabbing him

[01:17:59] and that's when it carried me

[01:18:01] aboard the craft now I want to stop

[01:18:03] here to interject the description

[01:18:05] of the creatures from another source

[01:18:07] because they're not described in the

[01:18:09] article and they're crazy

[01:18:11] looking well they're bulky we know

[01:18:13] they're bulky we know they're bulky

[01:18:15] they're so crazy looking that I think

[01:18:17] was not as an abduction story

[01:18:19] but it was as like a cryptid story

[01:18:21] about the pascagoula aliens

[01:18:23] they're so bizarre they get lumped in

[01:18:25] I think with like the Dover demon and stuff

[01:18:27] sometimes okay so Parker

[01:18:29] and Hickson would describe the beings as

[01:18:31] quote about five feet tall

[01:18:33] had bullet shaped heads without

[01:18:35] necks slits for mouths

[01:18:37] where their noses or ears would be

[01:18:39] they had thin conical

[01:18:41] objects sticking out like carrots

[01:18:43] from a snowman's head they had

[01:18:45] no eyes gray wrinkled skin

[01:18:47] round feet and claw like

[01:18:49] hands there's a mole man

[01:18:51] they're mole men they're

[01:18:53] bizarre people have drawn them before

[01:18:55] I don't remember if Parker and Hickson ever ended up drawing them

[01:18:57] but people have drawn based on their descriptions

[01:18:59] they are insane

[01:19:01] it's like biblical angels

[01:19:03] when you like when you read about what angels

[01:19:05] really look like and you're like oh what

[01:19:07] how many eyes a thousand eyes

[01:19:09] a thousand eyes

[01:19:11] where do you even fit those on ahead

[01:19:13] so back to the country roads article

[01:19:15] quote Parker said the creature stopped at the door

[01:19:17] and injected him with what he described

[01:19:19] as a go-to-hell shot

[01:19:21] oh what

[01:19:23] whatever it was

[01:19:25] ushered him from absolute terror

[01:19:27] to a sort of peaceful apathy

[01:19:29] the go-to-hell shot is also

[01:19:31] what they gave me at the dentist last week

[01:19:33] oh shit

[01:19:35] I didn't care what happened then

[01:19:37] so you think he's a couple bulky dentists maybe grabbing them

[01:19:39] it might be a couple of large necked dentists

[01:19:41] who have plans for Mr. Parker

[01:19:43] Parker described being taken

[01:19:45] aboard the craft down a hallway and into

[01:19:47] a room where the creature placed him on an examination table

[01:19:49] made entirely of glass

[01:19:51] according to Parker at that point

[01:19:53] the gray wrinkled creature that brought

[01:19:55] him aboard the ship left the room

[01:19:57] that's when something came out of the

[01:19:59] ceiling about the size of a deck of cards

[01:20:01] he says the square shaped

[01:20:03] object circled around him making a series

[01:20:05] of clicking noises

[01:20:07] I never thought about it until here lately

[01:20:09] it was like this MRI I was in except

[01:20:11] the click wasn't that loud Parker explained

[01:20:13] looking back and then it just

[01:20:15] shot back up in the ceiling

[01:20:17] then a smaller being entered

[01:20:19] the room which Parker said made him feel

[01:20:21] more at ease he couldn't move

[01:20:23] his body but rolled his head toward the

[01:20:25] creature she was normal he said

[01:20:27] matter of fact if I'd

[01:20:29] been in a bar room drinking or something

[01:20:31] and was single you know at this time

[01:20:33] I'd probably have asked her out on a date

[01:20:35] she looked just like a human

[01:20:37] except for its middle fingers

[01:20:39] her two middle fingers were

[01:20:41] real longer than what an average person

[01:20:43] would be

[01:20:45] oh man they almost nailed it

[01:20:47] whoever is working on their like

[01:20:49] human decoy department

[01:20:51] was like I'm pretty sure we nailed it

[01:20:53] and it was like what about these two crazy long fingers

[01:20:55] yeah I'm imagining this

[01:20:57] ship full of aliens being like hell yeah dude

[01:20:59] they are never gonna notice

[01:21:01] they're never gonna notice

[01:21:03] then you like cut to a wide shot and then just

[01:21:05] dragging middle fingers like spaghetti

[01:21:07] on the ground

[01:21:09] oh my god

[01:21:11] excuse me ma'am do you actually

[01:21:13] don't worry about it why did you

[01:21:15] become so nothing no reason

[01:21:17] you know mama said if there's nothing nice to

[01:21:19] say about someone to not say anything at all

[01:21:21] so nice to meet you and your crazy long

[01:21:23] fucking noodle fingers

[01:21:25] so shades of the boa

[01:21:27] story here this attractive female

[01:21:29] alien I don't know I fuck I'm taking boa

[01:21:31] lady any day she had a what like a

[01:21:33] sharp Reese Witherspoon chin is

[01:21:35] sharp chin yeah this guy is like

[01:21:37] hey can you grab me that thing from over there

[01:21:39] without moving at all thanks

[01:21:43] well this alien

[01:21:45] Parker recalls that without saying

[01:21:47] a word the creature put its left hand

[01:21:49] on his jaw and opened his mouth

[01:21:51] that's when she took her right hand and

[01:21:53] started running it down my throat

[01:21:55] oh no that long ass finger yeah

[01:21:57] he starts gagging

[01:21:59] she scratched it up real bad and it was

[01:22:01] bleeding it was a darn mess

[01:22:03] it pulled its hand back out

[01:22:05] Parker had the impression that it

[01:22:07] didn't want to hurt him anymore

[01:22:09] then it made a groan from deep within

[01:22:11] its throat he says quote

[01:22:13] I don't know if you ever heard an alligator's

[01:22:15] maiden call where they vibrate

[01:22:17] the whole air around you but

[01:22:19] that's how it sounded this is a person

[01:22:21] who's like boats

[01:22:23] what a mystery

[01:22:25] but he has scientific

[01:22:27] knowledge of fucking reptiles

[01:22:29] I mean the detail about that

[01:22:31] alligator maiden call something about that

[01:22:33] gets me it's so specific

[01:22:35] and it feels like such a weird detail yeah

[01:22:37] so that's when the creature that Parker

[01:22:39] said initially brought him aboard the craft

[01:22:41] I really believe to this day was

[01:22:43] a robot he added later

[01:22:45] returned carried him back to the bank of the river

[01:22:47] that's where the story really

[01:22:49] starts he said and then my life

[01:22:51] turned pretty much to hell right after

[01:22:53] that Parker said his first

[01:22:55] instinct which Hixon initially agreed

[01:22:57] with was not to tell anyone about

[01:22:59] what happened to them but on the drive

[01:23:01] back home Hixon changed his mind

[01:23:03] he thought they needed to tell someone about

[01:23:05] what happened despite Parker's protests

[01:23:07] Hixon dialed Keesler Air Force base

[01:23:09] in Biloxi and briefly explained

[01:23:11] what happened to them before being

[01:23:13] told that they didn't handle UFO reports

[01:23:15] anymore project blue book was finished

[01:23:17] they said and to call

[01:23:19] the local authorities wait so by 1970

[01:23:21] whatever this is like is project

[01:23:23] blue book a publicly known

[01:23:25] entity at this point like would they openly

[01:23:27] be like hey this thing called project

[01:23:29] blue book we don't do that anymore

[01:23:31] I don't think he was ever really all that

[01:23:33] secret because the whole

[01:23:35] point of project blue book was to use

[01:23:37] J. Allen Heineck to discredit

[01:23:39] UFO sightings and then

[01:23:41] he eventually got kind of drummed out

[01:23:43] because he was a little bit too

[01:23:45] he was very skeptical of

[01:23:47] a lot of what he discovered but

[01:23:49] he was too sympathetic sympathetic

[01:23:51] sympathetic yeah for some people in the government

[01:23:53] they didn't like that he was like no no

[01:23:55] no there's still some stuff here that we can't

[01:23:57] really explain they were like oh great well

[01:23:59] hey we're done

[01:24:01] H. Allen Yeah, Adios

[01:24:03] so remove it from the telephone menu

[01:24:05] sorry I guess it was a time when you can call the

[01:24:07] Air Force would be like speak to representative

[01:24:09] press one to speak to project blue book

[01:24:11] press two to talk

[01:24:13] about planes with just

[01:24:15] some old timer who likes talking about planes

[01:24:17] press three and we're like wow

[01:24:19] this is government money. H. Allen That would be such

[01:24:21] great make work program for vets

[01:24:23] just like staff them up at like army

[01:24:25] vets Air Force vets like guys

[01:24:27] who just man a phone line to talk to people

[01:24:29] about planes and tanks

[01:24:31] and oh my gosh things they drove

[01:24:33] that would be that would be very popular

[01:24:35] H. Allen It seems like a good way to use

[01:24:37] people H. Allen Yeah, I'd love that

[01:24:39] H. Allen At the Jackson County Sheriff's Department

[01:24:41] the men were questioned separately about their

[01:24:43] experience then put in a room alone

[01:24:45] together where they were secretly tape

[01:24:47] recorded so the phrasing

[01:24:49] of the article is a little confusing

[01:24:51] they were put in a room together

[01:24:53] where they were left alone

[01:24:55] and secretly tape recorded. H. Allen Sure

[01:24:57] H. Allen And this is part of what makes this case so convincing

[01:24:59] because the cops didn't just record

[01:25:01] the interview they did with Charlie

[01:25:03] and Calvin they left the hidden tape

[01:25:05] running after they left the room

[01:25:07] the idea was that they'd capture

[01:25:09] these guys on tape talking about

[01:25:11] getting one over on the cops

[01:25:13] or trying to make sure that they're getting their story straight

[01:25:15] when the cops come back in the room

[01:25:17] and instead they captured two men

[01:25:19] who cannot wrap their heads

[01:25:21] around what just happened to them

[01:25:23] and the reason we know this is because

[01:25:25] 47 years after the fact

[01:25:27] someone who was working at the Pascagoula

[01:25:29] Police Department that night

[01:25:31] or I guess not Pascagoula Police Department

[01:25:33] but the Jackson County Sheriff's Department

[01:25:35] someone who was working there that night

[01:25:37] leaked the tape

[01:25:39] the tape is a little scratchy it's not as easy

[01:25:41] to make out as the Betty and Bernie Hill tape

[01:25:43] so Ed and I will maybe act

[01:25:45] out a piece of it here if that's a little easier

[01:25:47] to understand

[01:25:49] I'll be Charlie Hickson

[01:25:51] and I'm looking this over and it seems

[01:25:53] has anyone ever read like Huck Finn or anything

[01:25:55] it's written in this

[01:25:57] dialect that's I don't know

[01:25:59] we're not adding this whatever

[01:26:01] it sounds like is how it's written

[01:26:03] so there you go

[01:26:05] okay so Ed's gonna kick this off as Charlie Hickson

[01:26:07] and I will be Calvin

[01:26:09] and you will enter the theater of the mind

[01:26:11] alright fade in

[01:26:15] I've never seen nothing like that before

[01:26:17] in my life you can't make people believe

[01:26:19] I don't want to keep sitting here I want to see a doctor

[01:26:21] they better wake up and start believing

[01:26:23] they better start believing

[01:26:25] you see how that damn door come right up

[01:26:27] I don't know how it opens on I don't know

[01:26:29] it just laid up and just like that those son of bitches

[01:26:31] just like that they come out

[01:26:33] no you can't believe it you can't make people believe it

[01:26:35] I paralyzed right then I couldn't move

[01:26:37] they won't believe it they're gonna believe it

[01:26:39] one of these days might be too late

[01:26:41] I know all along there was people from the other worlds

[01:26:43] I never thought it would happen to me

[01:26:45] and scene

[01:26:47] so Charlie also says on this tape

[01:26:49] Jesus Christ

[01:26:51] God have mercy I thought I'd been through enough

[01:26:53] a hell on this earth and now I gotta go

[01:26:55] through something like this

[01:26:57] which is such a wonderfully

[01:26:59] crotchety southern hard ass thing to say

[01:27:01] after you listen to this tape

[01:27:03] I don't know how you can think that

[01:27:05] again that these two didn't experience

[01:27:07] something just the

[01:27:09] can you believe it

[01:27:11] something just the confusion

[01:27:13] in their voice

[01:27:15] yeah if our performances didn't reveal it

[01:27:17] just the like staccato

[01:27:19] barely on the same

[01:27:21] these are people basically having conversations

[01:27:23] with no one essentially it's as if

[01:27:25] like they're not really responding to each other

[01:27:27] they're both just in awe they're both

[01:27:29] like they're both just talking out loud about things

[01:27:31] that confuse them from the previous couple hours

[01:27:33] yeah if you look at the transcript

[01:27:35] it's great writing honestly

[01:27:37] if you want to learn to be a screenwriter

[01:27:39] it's a great example of

[01:27:41] how to write a conversation

[01:27:43] like I would love to hear actors

[01:27:45] perform it just because not us

[01:27:47] not us but real actors

[01:27:49] because there's so much to interpret in the words

[01:27:51] and so many emotions that I think

[01:27:53] you could pull out of this

[01:27:55] because they're just so shocked

[01:27:57] but Parker tells us

[01:27:59] that after the deputies listen

[01:28:01] to the secret tape recording

[01:28:03] which he and Hickson didn't learn existed

[01:28:05] until much later they took

[01:28:07] them more seriously

[01:28:09] Parker urged the authorities not to tell

[01:28:11] anyone about what he and Hickson reported

[01:28:13] I wasn't going to tell a soul he emphasized

[01:28:15] but when we got back to the shipyard

[01:28:17] the next day they already knew

[01:28:19] when they got to work FB Walker

[01:28:21] and son shipyard was swarmed by news vans

[01:28:23] Parker estimated that around

[01:28:25] 200 reporters were there hoping

[01:28:27] to talk to him in Hickson so who told them

[01:28:29] I don't know I mean I don't know if it's like

[01:28:31] so the cops immediately left

[01:28:33] and were like you won't believe the fucking shit

[01:28:35] we just saw by the way their names are

[01:28:37] Charlie Hickson and fucking whatever

[01:28:39] and you can find him at this address

[01:28:41] and this is where they were

[01:28:43] it wasn't like they showed up to work

[01:28:45] it was like you guys won't believe what we heard

[01:28:47] these two dudes they dealt with some

[01:28:49] fucking crazy aliens whatever

[01:28:51] no they were like hey Hickson and Parker

[01:28:53] heard what happened to you specifically last night

[01:28:55] like that's kind of fucked up

[01:28:57] yeah I don't know if he's insinuating that

[01:28:59] the cops told somebody

[01:29:01] or exactly how it got in the news

[01:29:03] but fortunately it's like small town

[01:29:05] deep south in the 70s

[01:29:07] there was a lot of gossip you know there was a lot

[01:29:09] of you're not gonna believe who walked in last night

[01:29:11] yeah there's no way someone's

[01:29:13] yeah I don't think that they're like firing up the presses

[01:29:15] at 11pm to make sure this hits

[01:29:17] the morning news before factory workers

[01:29:19] go in no he says when we got

[01:29:21] back to this shipyard the next day

[01:29:23] I mean who knows this is the way memory

[01:29:25] works right like maybe it was a couple days

[01:29:27] before the news van showed up

[01:29:29] but the point is he lost

[01:29:31] his job he says of course I lost

[01:29:33] my job at the shipyard because people wouldn't leave

[01:29:35] me alone he drove back

[01:29:37] home to Laurel hoping to leave the events of October

[01:29:39] 11th behind and pass

[01:29:41] goola so Parker says

[01:29:43] quote and it started from there

[01:29:45] it was just like a roller coaster I went

[01:29:47] to work the reporter would show up at work

[01:29:49] while I was working and you know the people you work

[01:29:51] for eventually they get tired of that

[01:29:53] so I'd lose another job oh my god where's Charlie

[01:29:55] at this point where's Hickson I don't

[01:29:57] know because if Parker's getting it bad

[01:29:59] then Hickson must be like you know you

[01:30:01] vouch for this guy you gave your

[01:30:03] fishing equipment to some dude who's some sort of alien

[01:30:05] bait Hickson was the older

[01:30:07] guy he was more established he probably

[01:30:09] had more relationships at the job site

[01:30:11] got factory tenure yeah I don't know

[01:30:13] what exactly but you know it does seem

[01:30:15] like Parker kind of got the shit

[01:30:17] end of the stick here Parker the one guy

[01:30:19] who was like hey let's not tell anybody

[01:30:21] let's just not tell anybody yeah exactly

[01:30:23] well and it says so this article says

[01:30:25] eventually Parker went by the name Randy

[01:30:27] to avoid the press shit

[01:30:29] he says and that's where I went

[01:30:31] from there it's a hide but this has followed

[01:30:33] me all my life Parker

[01:30:35] still a religious man had once considered

[01:30:37] becoming a preacher another dream

[01:30:39] derailed that night it took

[01:30:41] so much credibility away that I wouldn't

[01:30:43] have enough people come in that would believe

[01:30:45] me I didn't think when a documentary

[01:30:47] reporter later asked him how would you

[01:30:49] feel if I told you I didn't believe

[01:30:51] you Parker answered you know fella

[01:30:53] that's your opinion if you want to

[01:30:55] believe that you can if you don't you

[01:30:57] don't I know what happened

[01:30:59] I know I'm telling the truth love it

[01:31:01] great quote it is yeah that's how we should

[01:31:03] all live our lives for a lot of different

[01:31:05] things truly truly the article

[01:31:07] then goes into a whole bunch of stuff about

[01:31:09] the books that Parker has written in his

[01:31:11] relationship with his wife and his publisher

[01:31:13] none of which is really relevant to the

[01:31:15] discussion here but it doesn't have a happy note

[01:31:17] I think this is really cool to this might

[01:31:19] be a scared all the time field trip someday

[01:31:21] in 2019 a historical

[01:31:23] marker was placed near the Pascagoula

[01:31:25] river across from the site where the

[01:31:27] alleged abduction took place

[01:31:29] this is the quote at the end of the

[01:31:31] plaque it remains the best documented

[01:31:33] case of alien abduction particularly

[01:31:35] since there's a secret tape involved and

[01:31:37] not one but two witnesses

[01:31:39] when it was officially unveiled Parker

[01:31:41] was so overwhelmed by the emotions of

[01:31:43] finally having the story he was ridiculed

[01:31:45] about for decades legitimize that he

[01:31:47] cried it was one of the happiest

[01:31:49] moments in his life and that is rare

[01:31:51] the session memorials to UFO incidents

[01:31:53] exist Philip Mantle Parker's

[01:31:55] publisher said there are a couple in

[01:31:57] different parts of the world

[01:31:59] but they're usually placed there long after

[01:32:01] their dead and gone you know thankfully

[01:32:03] Calvin was there to see it and enjoy

[01:32:05] it and have it officially unveiled

[01:32:07] this is 2019 this is 2019 2020

[01:32:09] it was torn down with all the rest of

[01:32:11] the Civil War shit I'm just kidding

[01:32:13] there's well there's a it reminded

[01:32:15] me too there is a Betty and Barney Hill

[01:32:17] marker on the highway

[01:32:19] in New Hampshire

[01:32:21] but they were dead way before that

[01:32:23] got place so it is this is probably

[01:32:25] one of the only instances

[01:32:27] where the person got to see it

[01:32:29] yeah and got to have people say

[01:32:31] we believe you I mean maybe we don't know

[01:32:33] what happened but and I think that's

[01:32:35] again what's so compelling is if you

[01:32:37] listen to this tape which you should

[01:32:39] even though it's hard to hear a little bit

[01:32:41] go to YouTube and listen to it something

[01:32:43] happened something happened

[01:32:45] and these guys you know we like to

[01:32:47] show I think you've said it before with

[01:32:49] it's that thing where it's like if these

[01:32:51] people are acting given the Academy Award

[01:32:53] now yeah that old saying that we've come

[01:32:55] back to a couple times on the show I

[01:32:57] don't know what that is in terms of a

[01:32:59] barometer of the truth but it does

[01:33:01] give credence and as evidence

[01:33:03] by our inability to act out

[01:33:05] there their evening

[01:33:07] acting is hard actually so

[01:33:09] well that's sort of an interesting

[01:33:11] I think side road here

[01:33:13] to discuss eyewitness accounts

[01:33:15] and whether or not we believe them and how good

[01:33:17] of actors people are

[01:33:19] you know I think something

[01:33:21] that's really interesting to me

[01:33:23] as someone who has directed actors

[01:33:25] and thinks about this like a

[01:33:27] lot of times I will listen to

[01:33:29] eyewitness accounts

[01:33:31] and in the back of my mind I'll be

[01:33:33] like okay how would I direct this

[01:33:35] like what would I be telling

[01:33:37] this person or what would I be trying to tap

[01:33:39] into to get these emotions out

[01:33:41] and that's why surprising

[01:33:43] emotions in

[01:33:45] eyewitness accounts tend to convince

[01:33:47] me because I think even if people

[01:33:49] are good actors

[01:33:51] most people are not

[01:33:53] instinctually

[01:33:55] interesting actors

[01:33:57] and by that I mean like

[01:33:59] if someone is going to tell a fake story

[01:34:01] there's sort of

[01:34:03] a performance that your

[01:34:05] average person would consider

[01:34:07] to convey scared

[01:34:09] or you know

[01:34:11] turned or confused or whatever

[01:34:13] and they'll kind of give you that performance

[01:34:15] but when you listen to

[01:34:17] a tape like this

[01:34:19] or you listen to I forget

[01:34:21] which couple it was but one of the most convincing

[01:34:23] ghost stories I've ever heard is on a very

[01:34:25] early episode of Unsolved Mysteries

[01:34:27] to me it's convincing because of the reaction

[01:34:29] of one of the elderly couple

[01:34:31] telling the story the husband

[01:34:33] has this reaction that is

[01:34:35] so honest and so

[01:34:37] true and so believable

[01:34:39] so not what your

[01:34:41] average person would go to

[01:34:43] as this is how I'm expressing

[01:34:45] this story or this emotion

[01:34:47] and so that's what's convincing to me sometimes

[01:34:49] because I believe that people

[01:34:51] can be convincing and can act

[01:34:53] if they want to if they're properly

[01:34:55] you know motivated by who knows

[01:34:57] what it's just that like

[01:34:59] you hear something sometimes that is so true

[01:35:01] without seeming

[01:35:03] standard yeah and

[01:35:05] that's what's really convincing yeah I was part

[01:35:07] of a court case thing

[01:35:09] like two years ago year and a half ago

[01:35:11] where we had to look at a bunch of security

[01:35:13] camera footage

[01:35:15] of two people

[01:35:17] and to me and I'm not saying

[01:35:19] like I'm an expert in the field but as a person who's

[01:35:21] worked in our industry been around actors

[01:35:23] been on set

[01:35:25] as not a director like you but I was

[01:35:27] like there's certain takes here

[01:35:29] not takes but it means security camera footage

[01:35:31] where it seems like they're playing for the camera

[01:35:33] yeah and it's regional

[01:35:35] and you're level active yeah yeah yeah these

[01:35:37] thoughts ended up being true I was not

[01:35:39] wrong but

[01:35:41] you just watch a bunch of security camera footage

[01:35:43] and like okay yep that one they didn't know

[01:35:45] that one they didn't know okay this one now

[01:35:47] you can see the moment they realize

[01:35:49] oh we're being recorded right

[01:35:51] and they've changed to act

[01:35:53] towards not you don't look

[01:35:55] up at the fucking camera but I'm saying like now

[01:35:57] they start acting and the thing is

[01:35:59] they're not fucking actors

[01:36:01] that you can see they don't know what to do with their hands

[01:36:03] it's just so stupid yeah so

[01:36:05] yeah there is something to seeing someone who's not

[01:36:07] an actor and they tell you a story

[01:36:09] or something that they have worked on beforehand

[01:36:11] and it's got all these very I think

[01:36:13] telling markers so when

[01:36:15] you do have a recording like you were saying

[01:36:17] that's like that seems genuine

[01:36:19] or the emotion came out at a weird time

[01:36:21] like a rehearsed time

[01:36:23] yeah it adds a lot to the

[01:36:25] stories yeah and I think it speaks

[01:36:27] to though we don't know

[01:36:29] what some of these people did experience

[01:36:31] I think in the same way

[01:36:33] that actors draw on experiences

[01:36:35] that they are conscious and aware of

[01:36:37] to give life

[01:36:39] to their performances

[01:36:41] I think people like the hills

[01:36:43] and like Parker and Hickson

[01:36:45] you know that emotions coming from

[01:36:47] somewhere it's coming from

[01:36:49] something and in their case in particular

[01:36:51] I don't think it's coming from something

[01:36:53] that they drew upon it's coming from

[01:36:55] the thing that just happened yeah yeah

[01:36:57] yeah you know who knows it's very weird

[01:36:59] but like I said a marker

[01:37:01] or a plaque was put down

[01:37:03] and thankfully Calvin was there to see it

[01:37:05] and enjoy it and have it officially

[01:37:07] unveiled so that is

[01:37:09] the Pascagoula alien abduction

[01:37:11] encounter and I feel like

[01:37:13] it's a natural place to stop

[01:37:15] with Parker and Hickson's story

[01:37:17] here and call this part

[01:37:19] 2 before we move on to part 3

[01:37:21] because I think part 2

[01:37:23] between Parker and Hickson's story

[01:37:25] and the Hills abduction

[01:37:27] story I think really focuses on

[01:37:29] the emotional

[01:37:31] experience of going through

[01:37:33] an alien abduction

[01:37:35] but there are people who have

[01:37:37] experienced

[01:37:39] physical symptoms after

[01:37:41] an alien abduction or in some cases

[01:37:43] not an abduction but a very

[01:37:45] very very close encounter

[01:37:47] which we've touched on a little bit with like

[01:37:49] Boas and stuff right yeah I mean

[01:37:51] Boas was he ended up on the ship

[01:37:53] but there's a few other people who have had

[01:37:55] like encounters where they didn't technically

[01:37:57] get on a ship so next week

[01:37:59] we're going to dive further into

[01:38:01] the physical scars and reminders

[01:38:03] that you may experience

[01:38:05] post alien abduction

[01:38:07] things like alien implants

[01:38:09] radiation burns

[01:38:11] evidence of probing

[01:38:13] stuff like that that's the real

[01:38:15] mean meat and potatoes

[01:38:17] of the things that scare us

[01:38:19] about being abducted by aliens

[01:38:21] so in case you thought aliens

[01:38:23] were over turns out when you start

[01:38:25] looking into aliens there's a lot

[01:38:27] there so we're going to do one more

[01:38:29] at least guys yeah yeah yeah and as

[01:38:31] with a lot of the things we try to cover

[01:38:33] on this show you know I know Betty and Barney

[01:38:35] Hill is a pretty standard alien abduction

[01:38:37] story but it's just so interesting I couldn't

[01:38:39] say no but we'll

[01:38:41] try to dig up some lesser known

[01:38:43] stories from people where their stories

[01:38:45] haven't been explored a million times

[01:38:47] over already and see what kind

[01:38:49] of conclusions we can come to about

[01:38:51] what's up there in the skies and

[01:38:53] how interested they are in

[01:38:55] what's going on down here in the land baby

[01:38:57] these bodies these square

[01:38:59] bodies down here on earth

[01:39:01] the shapes that they don't understand

[01:39:03] because they're just fucking stick

[01:39:05] figures up there they have I've never seen

[01:39:07] a muscular alien of you no shit

[01:39:09] thank god right I think that's a very

[01:39:11] different abduction story if it's like a bunch

[01:39:13] of muscle bound aliens well the predators

[01:39:15] predators pretty shredded predator is

[01:39:17] shredded parents super shredded

[01:39:19] but he ended up landing in the jungle

[01:39:21] with some of the most shredded dudes so it's like

[01:39:23] it's a it's a fair fight in a lot of ways

[01:39:25] yeah that's true so anyway next week

[01:39:27] we'll be shredded and we'll have more

[01:39:29] stories until then this has been scared

[01:39:31] all the time I'm Chris Calari

[01:39:33] and I'm Ed Vakola and we will see

[01:39:35] you next week for believe it or not

[01:39:37] more alien stuff

[01:39:39] alright see you then scared all the

[01:39:41] time it's co-produced and written by Chris Calari

[01:39:43] and Ed Vakola edited by Ed Vakola

[01:39:45] additional support and keeper of sanity

[01:39:47] test-fifal our theme is the

[01:39:49] track scared by perpetual stew

[01:39:51] and mr. disclaimer is

[01:39:53] no part of the show can be

[01:39:55] reproduced anywhere without permission copyright

[01:39:57] astonishing legends productions

[01:39:59] tonight we are in this together

[01:40:01] together