Waking Up During Surgery

[00:00:00] Astonishing Legends Network.

[00:00:04] Disclaimer, this episode includes the usual amount of adult language and graphic discussions you've come to expect around here.

[00:00:10] But in the event it becomes an unusual amount, expect another call from me.

[00:00:15] Welcome back to Scared All The Time. I'm Chris Collari.

[00:00:18] And I'm Ed Vukola.

[00:00:19] And we're kicking off season three with what I would call a real humdinger of a fear.

[00:00:24] The good shit. That keeps me up at night shit.

[00:00:27] And it's not supernatural. It's not a mystery. It's not dark and evil.

[00:00:32] It's a potentially unavoidable part of everyday life.

[00:00:36] And that is the worst thing about it.

[00:00:39] This week we're talking about waking up during surgery.

[00:00:43] It combines the worst parts of torture and paralysis into one incredible mega fear that affects more people on a yearly basis than I ever thought possible.

[00:00:51] But it pales in comparison to the fear people faced before there were any anesthetics at all.

[00:00:58] For centuries, surgeries were performed on men, women and children with no painkillers and nothing to put them to sleep.

[00:01:05] Generations of humans had no choice but to experience each incision with sparkling painful clarity or die from whatever it was that was ailing them.

[00:01:14] The indescribable pain, fear and madness that resulted from these procedures probably ruined about as many lives as they saved.

[00:01:22] So we're going to explore surgery, both pre and post anesthesia, and read one of the most horrific first person experiences I could find

[00:01:31] that details what it's like to wake up paralyzed but able to feel everything while under the surgeon's blade.

[00:01:38] They say any science advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic.

[00:01:41] And in many ways, the ability to put patients under during surgery to save their lives by cutting and suturing and stapling and digging and piercing in ways that wouldn't be possible on a conscious person is almost magical.

[00:01:56] Until it goes wrong and you wake up in hell.

[00:02:00] What are we? Scared. When are we? All the time.

[00:02:04] Join us. Now it is time for time for scared all the time.

[00:02:11] Well, well, well, we don't meet again.

[00:02:15] Listener, here we are. Season three ready to rock for another 10 episodes.

[00:02:20] And for housekeeping today, unfortunately, I have to let you know that you only get me.

[00:02:26] There's no Ed today in housekeeping. He's in the episode.

[00:02:28] But Ed is on the road, as many of you probably saw on Facebook or Instagram.

[00:02:33] Ed has been engaged in the social contract across America tour 2024 as he drove from California to Connecticut to do something with big rigs.

[00:02:45] I don't know. I think he's driving in a convoy.

[00:02:48] And then in about two weeks or a few weeks, maybe not two weeks, a few weeks, I will be flying to Connecticut to meet Ed once he gets off the big rigs or the monster trucks or whatever he's riding.

[00:03:03] And he and I are going to drive from Connecticut to Monster Fest in Ohio.

[00:03:09] We've heard from some of you that you're going to be there.

[00:03:12] And we're very excited. I hope as many of you come as possible.

[00:03:17] We're ready to meet some of you guys in person and have a good time talking Bigfoot and ghosts and cryptids and generally having the spookiest weekend imaginable.

[00:03:30] So we're very excited for that.

[00:03:32] And I guess I should say right off the top, damn, guys, if you liked season one and then you loved season two, you're going to shit your pants when you hear what we have in store for season three.

[00:03:44] We have got four or five episodes in the can already.

[00:03:49] Four, four. And they rock.

[00:03:52] The topics are some of the most requested.

[00:03:56] The stories are some of the grossest and weirdest we found.

[00:04:00] And we have at least one amazing guest coming up in that first group.

[00:04:06] So this show, every time we go back and record new stuff, it really feels like it's just getting started.

[00:04:11] And speaking of just getting started, everybody who signed up for scared all the time premium in our down month.

[00:04:19] Let's get a big hell yeah going in the chat that fucking rocks.

[00:04:23] You guys are awesome. We were genuinely blown away by how many people signed up.

[00:04:30] We were like, OK, if in the first week we get five, let's just if it's five, that would be great.

[00:04:38] And I think we're up to like 70 something.

[00:04:42] I don't know. I have to check. We have quite a few buttons that have gone out.

[00:04:47] Ed probably knows the number better than I do off the top of his head.

[00:04:51] But we've got welcome buttons that have gone out.

[00:04:53] We've got a hose boys pins for those of you that are in button of the month club.

[00:04:59] And right off the bat, we're going to say thank you to our big cigar chomping producers for the month of May.

[00:05:05] We're going to read your names in alphabetical order by first name.

[00:05:10] And so if you guys like the show, these are some of the people you can now thank and send tribute to for making this thing happen.

[00:05:21] So we have Ambrosio L, Ariel T, Ann Marie V, Buttercup Honeycutt, Cassandra O, Charlotte C, Christopher M, Claire B, David V, Gabrielle G, Jonathan B, Justin R, Katherine L, Kevin W, Kristen T, Kristen S.

[00:05:47] It's like the popular girls at the lunch table or something. You've got Kristen T and Kristen S.

[00:05:52] Lauren M, Matthew S, Melissa L, Michael S, Samantha C, and Sean K.

[00:06:00] Ed's got a thing about only listing people's last initials. I guess it's kind of a privacy thing.

[00:06:06] He's probably going to cut this when he hears the recording.

[00:06:09] But if you guys want your whole name first and last to be listed in the producer segment, I am more than happy to do so.

[00:06:19] We are more than happy to do so, I think.

[00:06:21] But we just don't want anyone to be like, oh God, now my enemies can track me down as being a fan of Scared All the Time and they'll know I'm at Monster Fest.

[00:06:29] So if you haven't signed up for Scared All the Time Premium yet and you want to join to get some of these rewards,

[00:06:35] whether it's the live show, which we did a few weeks ago and it was awesome.

[00:06:40] Whether it is the bonus Ask Me Anything episode, the welcome pin, button of the month club.

[00:06:47] Or if you want to join the big head honchos, the producers, you could do that as well over at scared.supercast.com.

[00:06:57] You can sign up for whichever of the three levels you want.

[00:07:00] And we would be happy to have you join us and have some fun with all the different premium features that we have.

[00:07:08] Oh, how could I forget Frog Mode?

[00:07:11] If you like the dart frogs in the background that we've had in a couple of our earlier episodes,

[00:07:16] that's now reserved for people who sign up for just the...

[00:07:20] Even at the most basic level, you'll get ad free and frog mode.

[00:07:23] So jump in on one of those levels, help us keep the show going.

[00:07:27] Again, it's been amazing so far.

[00:07:29] The response has been incredible.

[00:07:31] We love you guys for hanging out with us and having a good time.

[00:07:34] So yeah, that's housekeeping.

[00:07:36] Basically, I really just want to get this episode started.

[00:07:39] You already know the episode is about waking up during surgery.

[00:07:44] It is shocking how much more prevalent waking up during surgery seems to be than we thought it was.

[00:07:51] We've received a couple of emails.

[00:07:54] Obviously, none of you knew we were recording this episode,

[00:07:57] but we've received a couple of emails since recording the episode about people who have woken up during surgery.

[00:08:04] I think probably prompted by some of the discussion of it in the alien abduction episodes.

[00:08:09] And I've seen a couple other things about it on the news.

[00:08:12] So it's a menace.

[00:08:14] Don't let this happen to you.

[00:08:16] I don't know how to prevent it.

[00:08:18] That's why it's scary.

[00:08:19] You have no control over it.

[00:08:21] We have no control over anything in our lives.

[00:08:23] So it's best to just sit back, relax, have a couple of laughs with your buds,

[00:08:28] put on scared all the time and let go because life's an adventure and none of us make it out alive.

[00:08:34] So with that in mind, here we go.

[00:08:36] Scared all the time, season three, episode one, waking up during surgery.

[00:08:41] Imagine waking up a little hazy, maybe a little confused.

[00:08:45] You feel like you're on your back, but you aren't in bed.

[00:08:49] It's too cold to be in bed.

[00:08:52] There's a bright light shining straight into your eyes and it feels like there's something wrong,

[00:08:58] something moving around inside you, maybe in your chest, your stomach, your mouth, your throat, neck, arms, legs,

[00:09:06] whoever the sensation is.

[00:09:08] It starts as discomfort and then becomes pressure, then quickly becomes painful.

[00:09:13] So painful you want to scream, but you can't.

[00:09:17] Your entire body is paralyzed because you have just woken up during surgery

[00:09:22] and there's nothing you can do except suffer in rigid silence and wait for it to be over.

[00:09:27] This is a real thing that actually happens.

[00:09:30] It's called sudden or accidental awareness.

[00:09:33] Although for most of this episode, I think we're probably just going to refer to it as waking up during surgery.

[00:09:38] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:09:40] And it is, for my money, one of the most traumatic and horrible things a human being can experience.

[00:09:46] It's the stuff of nightmares and horror movies.

[00:09:49] It's the kind of torture a particularly nasty serial killer might inflict on their victims,

[00:09:54] except it's happening during what's supposed to be a pretty routine experience.

[00:09:58] I mean, spoiler alert right now, Ed, I don't know how you feel,

[00:10:02] but this shit is right at the top of the fear tier for me.

[00:10:05] No, I mean, if anyone listened to our alien abduction episodes,

[00:10:06] I mean, this is kind of where this came from.

[00:10:09] The genesis of this episode being made is because I was completely like,

[00:10:13] I was so afraid of that, I derailed the alien talk for a little bit,

[00:10:17] being like, all I have in my head now is waking up during surgery.

[00:10:19] Like, we'll get to it in the end, but you know it's going to be pretty fucking high.

[00:10:22] Yeah, it's interesting that you bring up the Barney Hill thing

[00:10:25] because not only is that part of what sparked my interest in doing this episode,

[00:10:30] but after we talked about Barney Hill's abduction story

[00:10:32] and the idea that it could possibly have been the result

[00:10:35] of waking up during a tonsillectomy, we got emails from listeners.

[00:10:39] And two people who listened to this show have woken up during surgery.

[00:10:44] Plus my wife was like, oh yeah, that happened to me.

[00:10:47] So three people that we know have woken up during surgery.

[00:10:52] Like if these were your chances for the lottery, play the fucking lottery.

[00:10:55] Yeah, as far as I know, that is three more people

[00:10:58] than have experienced any of the other subjects that we've covered.

[00:11:00] That's true.

[00:11:02] So, you know, and we've covered some normal things like bad neighbors.

[00:11:06] I mean, people have written in about Hat Man.

[00:11:08] That's true. We've gotten a bunch of good Hat Man stories.

[00:11:11] Oh, you know what it is? It's like anytime you're under paralysis is when...

[00:11:15] Like paralysis is the Venn diagram here though, between Hat Man and this.

[00:11:20] Yeah. Well, the first email actually gets into that, or I'm sorry,

[00:11:24] the second email we'll read gets into that a little bit.

[00:11:27] So yes, I got permission to read these emails.

[00:11:28] I'm going to keep them both anonymous, but these are real listener emails.

[00:11:33] So the first one says, I had to get a colonoscopy around the age of 19.

[00:11:38] Cue probing jokes. And I woke up during the procedure.

[00:11:42] My first memory is opening my eyes and I was facing the screen

[00:11:45] that showed the inside of my intestines.

[00:11:48] I felt oddly peaceful and at ease while I watched.

[00:11:51] I wasn't able to feel my body beyond mild discomfort,

[00:11:54] but I slowly was able to find my voice.

[00:11:55] I was very interested in medicine at the time.

[00:11:58] So I had questions I wanted to ask.

[00:12:00] I can imagine you would no longer be interested in medicine

[00:12:03] after going through this.

[00:12:05] When I spoke, everyone jumped.

[00:12:07] And that was when I realized I wasn't dreaming.

[00:12:10] The doctor politely answered my questions

[00:12:12] and I can vividly remember that conversation to this day.

[00:12:15] They made sure I wasn't panicking

[00:12:17] and I stayed in that half awake state till the end of the procedure.

[00:12:20] It was close to the end anyway.

[00:12:22] They later explained that this likely happened

[00:12:23] because I was so young,

[00:12:25] my body processed the anesthesia drugs more quickly.

[00:12:27] I don't feel traumatized.

[00:12:29] It's a fun story to freak people out with.

[00:12:31] But it did leave me with an uneasiness about medicine

[00:12:33] and a little existential about the fact

[00:12:35] that we know much less as a collective than we claim to

[00:12:38] despite all our peer reviews and verifiable research.

[00:12:41] There is no guarantee that you won't wake up

[00:12:44] while being operated on.

[00:12:46] It's important to note that they do not put you

[00:12:48] completely under for colonoscopy.

[00:12:50] I'm sure my experience is much less frustrating

[00:12:53] than those who wake up while intubated

[00:12:55] or while being cut open or cauterized.

[00:12:58] I think the most terrifying experience

[00:13:00] would be abdominal surgery.

[00:13:02] I sat in on a few of those surgeries

[00:13:04] while in nursing school

[00:13:06] and the smell of cauterized flesh

[00:13:08] is something that sticks with you.

[00:13:10] You'll never smell cooking meat the same.

[00:13:13] So thank you listener for that

[00:13:16] incredibly lovely description of burning flesh.

[00:13:20] Also, I have to get a colonoscopy in the next year or so

[00:13:23] and so hearing that you don't get put completely under

[00:13:26] and you might wake up during it sucks.

[00:13:29] Yeah, but I don't mind it in the sense that

[00:13:31] it's he or she mentioned at the end

[00:13:33] but there is something about like,

[00:13:35] yeah, it's a camera up my ass.

[00:13:37] It's not like my intestines are spilling out

[00:13:39] onto the table or anything.

[00:13:41] It's just like, ah, this is the camera up my ass.

[00:13:43] There is something like very comforting

[00:13:45] in that first story being like,

[00:13:47] I woke up, it was weird, it was uncomfortable.

[00:13:49] There was no pain.

[00:13:51] Everyone was freaked out because it sounds

[00:13:53] like a lot of work, but it's not like

[00:13:55] anything's been cut open.

[00:13:57] Really?

[00:13:59] They're only accessing things that are inconvenient

[00:14:01] but accessible without surgery.

[00:14:03] But I also don't know the definition of surgery.

[00:14:05] I guess that is surgery still.

[00:14:07] It's an invasive procedure.

[00:14:09] I don't know.

[00:14:11] I guess I don't know technically

[00:14:13] the medical definition of surgery.

[00:14:15] I guess to me surgery would be some kind of

[00:14:17] being cut and removed type operation

[00:14:19] where there's stitching

[00:14:20] and you're fixing something

[00:14:22] as opposed to going in and just looking.

[00:14:24] That's what I would agree with.

[00:14:26] Also the official definition is

[00:14:28] a branch of medical practice to treat injuries,

[00:14:30] diseases, and deformities

[00:14:32] by the physical removal of hair

[00:14:34] or readjustment of organs and tissues

[00:14:36] often involving cutting into the body.

[00:14:38] By the physical removal of hair?

[00:14:40] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:14:42] I thought I paused there

[00:14:44] because yeah, it's weird.

[00:14:46] Injuries, deformities by the physical removal.

[00:14:48] Oh, I don't have my glasses on.

[00:14:50] So yes, hold on.

[00:14:52] My glasses are now on

[00:14:54] and it's the physical removal,

[00:14:56] repair, or readjustment of organs and tissues

[00:15:00] often involving cutting into the body.

[00:15:02] So I saw removal of hair

[00:15:04] because I didn't have my glasses on.

[00:15:06] Yes.

[00:15:08] Okay, that makes more sense.

[00:15:10] I was like there are hair surgeries

[00:15:12] but I don't think of them as like

[00:15:14] the most common.

[00:15:16] Oh man.

[00:15:18] Okay. All right.

[00:15:20] I just mean that like

[00:15:22] if you wake up during that procedure,

[00:15:24] you're not going to see your insides

[00:15:26] other than what's on the camera screen.

[00:15:28] Right, exactly. True.

[00:15:30] Well, the next email is worse.

[00:15:32] It begins,

[00:15:34] this, by this the writer means accidental awareness,

[00:15:37] has happened to me on multiple occasions.

[00:15:40] Buddy, what is wrong here?

[00:15:42] You got to tell people when you go in

[00:15:44] like hey, think about me as

[00:15:46] I might not be as susceptible to this

[00:15:48] as other people like really dose me up

[00:15:50] with the wrong medicine.

[00:15:52] Well, let's see what they say here.

[00:15:54] So this has happened to me on multiple occurrences

[00:15:56] and not only have I been told by a doctor

[00:15:58] that it was only imagined or dreamed,

[00:16:00] other people do not believe that this happens.

[00:16:02] I will share my experiences

[00:16:04] and feel free to use in the show if you want.

[00:16:06] The first time it happened

[00:16:08] I was getting my wisdom teeth taken out.

[00:16:10] I was 19. Oh, okay.

[00:16:12] Like the like the first listener

[00:16:14] was also 19 when they got their colonoscopy.

[00:16:16] So interesting that young age

[00:16:18] you process the anesthesia faster

[00:16:20] because two of them, the wisdom teeth

[00:16:22] were impacted and had to be surgically removed.

[00:16:24] I became aware while the procedure was taking place.

[00:16:27] It was like I woke up from a dream groggy

[00:16:29] but I looked into the doctor's eyes

[00:16:31] and I remember thinking he knew I was awake

[00:16:34] but he proceeded to extract my teeth.

[00:16:36] So he's a psycho, I guess.

[00:16:38] Or he's booked.

[00:16:40] He's got people right after you.

[00:16:42] That's true. I was numbed for this procedure

[00:16:44] and did not wake up to pain

[00:16:46] but I did feel an intense pressure sensation

[00:16:48] and I then fell back into sleep

[00:16:50] and I was in recovery.

[00:16:52] I remember that I woke up right away.

[00:16:54] I think I told my parents

[00:16:56] but nobody really thought much of it.

[00:16:58] The next time it happened, it was way worse.

[00:17:00] So I'll interject here to say

[00:17:02] I also had surgery on my wisdom teeth

[00:17:04] when I was a kid for the same reason.

[00:17:06] I was probably like 13 or 14.

[00:17:08] They put me under which I was very nervous about

[00:17:10] and I didn't wake up during the operation

[00:17:12] but I was so fucking scared when I woke up.

[00:17:15] They put me in this dark room

[00:17:17] weird like a recovery room

[00:17:18] and my mom was in there with me

[00:17:20] but when I woke up-

[00:17:22] Wait, how did they get you in there?

[00:17:24] You're in the chair

[00:17:26] and then you're in another location after?

[00:17:28] Yeah, well they do the surgery

[00:17:30] and then to recover like for you to wake up

[00:17:32] they put you in a little or they put me at least.

[00:17:34] Yeah, but did somebody just like put their arms

[00:17:36] under your arms and like firemen carry you

[00:17:38] into another room?

[00:17:40] Like why? I don't know.

[00:17:42] I guess it's weird.

[00:17:44] I'll get into mine after

[00:17:46] but I did not go to another location.

[00:17:48] They lifted me up and dragged me to another room.

[00:17:50] Well, when I woke up

[00:17:52] I was absolutely 100% sure that I was dead

[00:17:56] and I kept telling my mom

[00:17:58] that if she was with me

[00:18:00] that meant she was dead too

[00:18:02] and she was telling me we weren't dead

[00:18:04] and I was not having it.

[00:18:06] So these anesthesia meds can really do a number on you.

[00:18:09] Mom, you've seen Charlie bit my finger.

[00:18:11] Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:13] I mean there's like a new YouTube video every week

[00:18:15] of like person gets tooth surgery or whatever

[00:18:16] and now it's like they're going to ruin their career.

[00:18:18] There's a famous Taylor Swift one.

[00:18:20] She didn't ruin her career, but I'm saying

[00:18:22] there's like a famous Taylor Swift went to the dentist

[00:18:24] or had anesthesia was being a little silly goose after.

[00:18:26] Wait, really?

[00:18:28] I want to say on like Kimmel or something

[00:18:30] a couple years ago he had played it when she was a guest.

[00:18:32] You know what?

[00:18:34] It's so fucking hacky.

[00:18:36] I bet it was Fallon, but yes, her mom's

[00:18:38] we know how this stuff really works

[00:18:40] but according to the show Taylor Swift's mom

[00:18:42] sent them her post-surgery goofballery

[00:18:46] to the show and she didn't know about it

[00:18:48] but there's no version where that happens in real life.

[00:18:50] Right, yeah, yeah.

[00:18:52] There's no version where Taylor Swift didn't hold a gun

[00:18:54] to her mom's head and say take a video

[00:18:56] when I'm waking up and then send it to Kimmel.

[00:18:59] No, I'm saying there's no version

[00:19:01] where you're about to be on national television

[00:19:03] and you are not completely agreed upon

[00:19:05] what that footage is going to be shown.

[00:19:07] No, I know, but I'm saying Taylor Swift

[00:19:09] at least the impression I have of her

[00:19:11] is that she's such a control freak

[00:19:13] that like she does everything.

[00:19:14] She's a hero now.

[00:19:16] Look, let's just get off the subject.

[00:19:18] We don't need Swifties activated over here, okay?

[00:19:20] I don't have a problem with her.

[00:19:22] I actually, I think Blank Space

[00:19:24] is like one of my favorite music videos.

[00:19:26] Well, speaking of Taylor Swift music videos

[00:19:28] I know more than a couple people

[00:19:30] who have actually worked on those

[00:19:32] and I have one buddy in particular

[00:19:34] who had like their life like straight up

[00:19:36] turned upside down for a while

[00:19:38] after being in one of them.

[00:19:40] Right.

[00:19:41] And the story, it's nuts

[00:19:42] because a lot of that shit's finally blown over.

[00:19:44] Yeah.

[00:19:45] But I'm dying right now,

[00:19:47] an episode about toxic fandom

[00:19:49] or maybe we'd call it enthusiastic fandom

[00:19:51] or motivated fandom to not,

[00:19:53] I guess, piss anybody off any further.

[00:19:55] Yeah.

[00:19:56] Whether it's pop stars

[00:19:58] or something a little closer to home

[00:20:00] like Rick and Morty

[00:20:02] and all the Szechuan sauce stuff and everything.

[00:20:04] I don't know.

[00:20:05] I think that would be super interesting.

[00:20:07] Yeah.

[00:20:08] It's kind of scary.

[00:20:10] Yeah, I think you're onto something.

[00:20:12] I'm going to be a part of this listeners email.

[00:20:14] You don't want to hear about my experience?

[00:20:16] Oh, go ahead.

[00:20:17] What was your experience?

[00:20:19] I've only had one surgery in my whole fucking life

[00:20:21] and that was it.

[00:20:22] It was getting my wisdom teeth removed

[00:20:24] around 15 years old

[00:20:26] and they put me in the chair.

[00:20:28] They put me under.

[00:20:30] I came to the procedure was done

[00:20:32] and I threw up everywhere

[00:20:34] and that is the whole story.

[00:20:36] Oh, great story.

[00:20:38] That wasn't much.

[00:20:40] It was yeah, I puked

[00:20:42] and I'm like, what happened to me?

[00:20:44] You know, it's just so weird

[00:20:46] to lose long tracks of time.

[00:20:48] I truly lose them.

[00:20:49] They are gone.

[00:20:50] Yeah, like whatever happened that time

[00:20:52] someone could have hung me out the window

[00:20:54] and just like did that for a while

[00:20:56] put me out in the open air.

[00:20:58] I would have no idea like that's the level

[00:21:00] of that's why I'm like how do you not question

[00:21:02] who fucking moved you?

[00:21:04] That's so crazy to me

[00:21:06] because a dentist chair is not a gurney.

[00:21:08] You can't roll around

[00:21:10] like someone had to physically lift you.

[00:21:12] And you just don't remember.

[00:21:14] Yeah, I mean, I don't think the dentist

[00:21:16] like deadlifted me over his head

[00:21:18] or something like carried me to that.

[00:21:20] That's what I think happens.

[00:21:22] Yeah, you hit a flagpole and stuff

[00:21:24] like just weird shit in the office is all

[00:21:26] a skew because they physically threw your body.

[00:21:28] I'm just saying like I've only bring it up now

[00:21:30] to get it out of the way, which is I've only had

[00:21:32] the one surgery ever and it was wisdom teeth

[00:21:34] that it went stellar

[00:21:36] and you know, I guess I'm one of the one

[00:21:38] of the lucky ones according to the numbers

[00:21:40] we're getting of emails on this.

[00:21:42] I love the next part of this email,

[00:21:44] which continues.

[00:21:46] I had a liposuction procedure done

[00:21:48] on my stomach when I was in my 30s.

[00:21:50] The procedure was a full anesthetic one.

[00:21:52] And when I woke up this time,

[00:21:54] I remember seeing the tube going in

[00:21:56] and out of my stomach like I was being

[00:21:58] stabbed over and over very quickly.

[00:22:00] I've seen those videos that it's exactly

[00:22:02] what it looks like.

[00:22:04] Yeah, I did feel the sensation

[00:22:06] of being ripped.

[00:22:08] Sorry to be graphic, but this is what

[00:22:10] happened and it was horrifying by all

[00:22:12] means. I felt the sensation

[00:22:14] of being ripped.

[00:22:16] I really don't know if I passed out

[00:22:18] because I realized that I was awake

[00:22:20] and the shock knocked me out or if I

[00:22:22] just fell back to sleep.

[00:22:24] But the next thing I realized I was

[00:22:26] waking up in the recovery room.

[00:22:28] I was okay. So no one carried this

[00:22:30] person either.

[00:22:32] Well, no, you have real surgery,

[00:22:34] not tooth surgery.

[00:22:36] You're on like a rolling gurney

[00:22:38] or you're or you're moved from that

[00:22:40] one, you know, stationary slab

[00:22:42] right. I think when you have a real

[00:22:44] surgery, not like, oh, just don't eat

[00:22:46] gummy bears for the next hour.

[00:22:48] Right, right, right.

[00:22:50] This person's getting stabbed with a

[00:22:52] vacuum. Yeah, I was scared.

[00:22:54] I was groggy for the next day or so

[00:22:56] and suffered from such horrible pain

[00:22:58] for several months following that

[00:23:00] procedure that I didn't think much of

[00:23:02] the fact that I woke up during it.

[00:23:04] But I do remember thinking that I

[00:23:06] can't believe I woke up during a

[00:23:08] procedure again.

[00:23:10] Yeah, I would have the same reaction.

[00:23:12] I followed up with that doctor.

[00:23:14] I told them and I even described who

[00:23:16] and what I saw in the room.

[00:23:18] And he said there was no indication

[00:23:20] that I woke up during the procedure,

[00:23:22] but I must have dreamt it.

[00:23:24] I regret having the procedure for

[00:23:26] several reasons, but having this

[00:23:28] happen also was probably the most

[00:23:30] terrifying thing that ever happened

[00:23:32] to me. God.

[00:23:33] Yeah, of course.

[00:23:35] Of course, it's not only the

[00:23:37] experience, but not being believed

[00:23:39] makes it even scarier.

[00:23:40] I mean, I don't know if you're

[00:23:42] like, well, I don't fucking believe

[00:23:44] you. If you had simply said, which

[00:23:46] the doctor did say, hey, you gave

[00:23:48] no indication.

[00:23:49] I had no idea.

[00:23:50] Well, like, yeah, I mean, that's

[00:23:52] enough. That absolves you of like

[00:23:54] you're not a monster.

[00:23:55] You're just doing your job.

[00:23:56] You had no idea.

[00:23:57] And I feel like that might be the

[00:23:58] case a lot of time.

[00:23:59] Yeah. I mean, not to defend the

[00:24:00] doctor because it's a pretty douchey

[00:24:02] way to react. But I do wonder if

[00:24:03] there's like a, you know, like if

[00:24:05] you get in a car accident, you're

[00:24:06] never supposed to be like, my bad.

[00:24:08] That was my fault.

[00:24:09] I mean, I think that's a big

[00:24:10] concern. Like if your patient comes

[00:24:11] to you and is like, I woke up

[00:24:12] during surgery and you didn't do

[00:24:13] anything about it.

[00:24:14] If you go, oh man, I'm so

[00:24:16] sorry to hear that.

[00:24:17] Like admitting admitting fault.

[00:24:19] Can they sue?

[00:24:20] I mean, I get hey, if you're the

[00:24:21] doctor who's stabbing people with a

[00:24:23] vacuum, I guess you're also not the

[00:24:25] anesthesiologist.

[00:24:26] So you'd really be like, well, that

[00:24:27] was fucking Jeanette's fault.

[00:24:29] She didn't know what the fuck she

[00:24:30] was doing. Right.

[00:24:31] You know what I mean? Like I really

[00:24:32] made it a point to change the gender

[00:24:34] on what most people would assume for

[00:24:35] doctors. But then I realized I

[00:24:37] attributed the lady to the fuck up.

[00:24:39] I undid all my work there.

[00:24:41] Yeah.

[00:24:42] Yeah, it's fine. It's the thought

[00:24:43] that counts.

[00:24:44] This listener also mentions that

[00:24:45] she's woken up during a

[00:24:47] colonoscopy. There we go with that

[00:24:48] again.

[00:24:50] And fertility treatments.

[00:24:51] So this continues.

[00:24:52] I thought the email was done.

[00:24:53] No. Well, I mean, there was a chunk

[00:24:55] about waking up during colonoscopies

[00:24:57] and fertility treatments.

[00:24:58] I'm not reading the whole thing.

[00:24:59] But the end of this email is super

[00:25:01] interesting because it ties back to

[00:25:03] the paralysis thing you were

[00:25:04] mentioning earlier.

[00:25:05] They say, I don't know if this is

[00:25:07] related. It would be interesting to

[00:25:08] know more to see if there's some

[00:25:09] sort of connection.

[00:25:10] But I have also suffered from night

[00:25:12] terrors and sleep paralysis

[00:25:13] throughout my entire life.

[00:25:15] Night terrors are not as frequent

[00:25:16] like they were in my childhood,

[00:25:18] maybe once or twice a year at this

[00:25:19] point. But sleep paralysis still

[00:25:21] happens to me currently.

[00:25:23] And I am in my mid 40s.

[00:25:25] I also used to sleepwalk until I was

[00:25:26] into my teens.

[00:25:28] My son, who is 20, also suffers

[00:25:30] from sleep paralysis weekly.

[00:25:32] It used to get the most intense

[00:25:34] night terrors with sleepwalking.

[00:25:36] I think there is a genetic component

[00:25:37] to it and it makes me think it

[00:25:38] could be somehow connected to this

[00:25:40] wakefulness during the wrong times.

[00:25:42] That's interesting. It's a really

[00:25:43] interesting theory. Yeah.

[00:25:44] Well, given the role that the sort

[00:25:46] of half awake nightmare state plays

[00:25:48] in stories of alien abductions

[00:25:50] and hat man and, you know,

[00:25:52] all that stuff, succubuses,

[00:25:54] succubi sitting on your chest

[00:25:56] in the night, the connection

[00:25:58] to sleep paralysis and night terror

[00:26:00] is super interesting.

[00:26:01] I don't really know what to make

[00:26:02] of it, but there could be

[00:26:03] something there.

[00:26:05] The thing that most excites me about

[00:26:06] that theory or that thought is the

[00:26:07] genetic aspect where it's like,

[00:26:09] oh, I can pass sleepwalking on to

[00:26:11] somebody is really interesting.

[00:26:12] Like that's a cognitive issue that

[00:26:14] is hereditary.

[00:26:15] Yeah. But then also, yeah,

[00:26:16] the idea that if you can just be

[00:26:18] like, yeah, the interesting thing

[00:26:19] about me is, you know, I'm never

[00:26:21] asleep when I'm supposed to be

[00:26:23] asleep. Yeah.

[00:26:24] Like that's kind of the thing.

[00:26:25] It's like, oh, I'm supposed to be

[00:26:26] asleep right now.

[00:26:27] Actually, I'm going to be an

[00:26:28] unmoving person looking at a demon.

[00:26:29] Oh, I'm supposed to be asleep right

[00:26:30] now. I'm going to watch you do

[00:26:32] like, yeah, I'm supposed to be

[00:26:33] asleep right now.

[00:26:34] But I don't know if their body

[00:26:35] just predisposed to

[00:26:37] being a line stepper.

[00:26:39] Like it's just going to see.

[00:26:40] Yeah. I don't know.

[00:26:41] Like, yeah, it's it's interesting.

[00:26:43] I don't really get into this in the

[00:26:44] episode, but it popped up a few times

[00:26:46] in the research that redheads

[00:26:48] apparently have a harder

[00:26:50] time staying under my beloved

[00:26:52] redheads. Apparently, my beloved

[00:26:53] gingers, they can't stay under.

[00:26:55] My wife's a redhead.

[00:26:56] So, you know, she woke up.

[00:26:58] I don't know if these other two

[00:26:59] listeners are redheads or not, but

[00:27:01] shit.

[00:27:02] And I didn't go down that rabbit

[00:27:03] hole to see why what they think

[00:27:05] in the genes of redheads is

[00:27:07] so broken and wrong.

[00:27:09] Just kidding. Well, I mean, they

[00:27:10] are such a small part of the

[00:27:11] population that I guess,

[00:27:13] you know, so you're hitting the

[00:27:14] genetic lottery by being a redhead.

[00:27:15] Then you're hitting the wake up

[00:27:17] and surgery lottery.

[00:27:18] Like, I guess you should all play

[00:27:19] the fucking lottery.

[00:27:20] Good luck.

[00:27:21] The numbers are good.

[00:27:22] Yeah. Enough bad luck coming your

[00:27:23] way. Trying to try to convert.

[00:27:25] That's a good luck.

[00:27:26] True. Everybody listen to Ed's

[00:27:28] life advice. He's he knows what he's

[00:27:30] talking about. The last thing I'll

[00:27:31] say about that is, and I had it

[00:27:33] until you started talking about

[00:27:34] redheads. My eyes turned to heart

[00:27:36] shaped pupils.

[00:27:37] But oh, that's what it was.

[00:27:38] That's what I'm going to say.

[00:27:39] What I find interesting, too, is

[00:27:40] like how it affects your life

[00:27:42] moving forward in the sense that as

[00:27:43] a person who has bad ears, I have

[00:27:45] really bad inner ear issues.

[00:27:47] And so flying is such a crapshoot

[00:27:49] for me, even when I feel like I'm

[00:27:50] flying with no congestion

[00:27:52] whatsoever.

[00:27:53] I can still get hit with the most

[00:27:54] intense ear pain on the descent.

[00:27:57] You can even imagine like feels

[00:27:58] like a dream.

[00:27:59] It's being put in the side of my

[00:28:00] head. I am chewing gum.

[00:28:02] Nothing's helping.

[00:28:03] And I thought I was good.

[00:28:04] You understand, like, right.

[00:28:05] If I have like a cold, I'm not

[00:28:06] flying. I'll walk to my location

[00:28:08] because it really hurts that bad.

[00:28:10] Yeah. So for me, the idea

[00:28:12] that that might happen will dictate

[00:28:14] when and how I travel.

[00:28:16] So the idea that if you wake up

[00:28:18] more than once in a surgical

[00:28:20] procedure, that will dictate

[00:28:22] like how bad is this problem

[00:28:24] for me? Like everyone says I

[00:28:25] should get surgery, but I keep

[00:28:26] waiting.

[00:28:28] I'm going to put it off.

[00:28:29] I'm going to put it off.

[00:28:30] I'm going to go ahead and avoid

[00:28:31] the surgery.

[00:28:32] Or if you're saying this is a

[00:28:34] preventative surgery, well, let's

[00:28:35] just hope it's not necessary

[00:28:37] because I'd be scared to ever put

[00:28:39] down in the books that I have a

[00:28:40] surgery coming up if if I'm a

[00:28:41] person who feels like I'm

[00:28:43] susceptible to waking up.

[00:28:44] Yeah. And so that kind of messes

[00:28:45] up your quality of life a little

[00:28:47] bit. You have a fear of what's

[00:28:49] supposed to be a helpful thing.

[00:28:51] Yeah. Well, that's one of the

[00:28:53] things that I wanted to explore.

[00:28:55] You know, after we got these

[00:28:56] emails, I got nervous about how

[00:28:58] common waking up during surgery

[00:29:00] is because it had gone from

[00:29:02] something that I never thought

[00:29:04] about, something that seems like

[00:29:06] happens to every other person

[00:29:07] I've met.

[00:29:08] Yeah. It's a coin flip now.

[00:29:09] Yeah.

[00:29:10] Yeah. And so I was like, well,

[00:29:11] you know, maybe I'll go back and

[00:29:12] look at the history of

[00:29:14] accidental awareness.

[00:29:15] How often does it really happen?

[00:29:17] And and how long have doctors been

[00:29:19] improving ways for us to stay

[00:29:20] under more consistently?

[00:29:22] You know, I always go back to the

[00:29:24] history on this show, but in this

[00:29:25] case, the history is not much help

[00:29:26] because what we're looking at

[00:29:28] isn't so much the history of

[00:29:29] waking up during surgery as it is

[00:29:31] the history of pain, basically.

[00:29:35] Because because until surgeons

[00:29:37] started using ether to put their

[00:29:39] patients under in 1846, which was

[00:29:42] not even 200 years ago, mind you,

[00:29:45] every surgery was performed

[00:29:47] without any way of dulling

[00:29:50] the pain for minor surgeries to

[00:29:52] full on multi limb amputations.

[00:29:55] You were pretty much just fucked.

[00:29:57] Is that where barbers were also

[00:29:59] usually the dentists?

[00:30:00] It's like, hey, well, you know

[00:30:02] who else going to use?

[00:30:03] Fuck it. You're already here.

[00:30:04] No one's going to make this better

[00:30:06] than I can do.

[00:30:07] Well, dentists will get to this

[00:30:08] in a little bit, but a dentist is

[00:30:10] the first one who started using ether.

[00:30:12] Well, you know why?

[00:30:13] I bet you it's because and I'm

[00:30:14] sure you'll say it, but my first

[00:30:16] initial theory is if my fingers

[00:30:18] are in someone's mouth and then

[00:30:19] they get pissed or feel pain and

[00:30:21] they bite down as hard as they

[00:30:23] can, I'm going to lose a finger.

[00:30:25] You know what I mean?

[00:30:26] You got to find a way to like

[00:30:27] keep somebody calm enough where

[00:30:29] I'm not going to lose a finger

[00:30:31] here. Right. That's my first

[00:30:32] thought. It was more of

[00:30:33] preventative care for the dentist.

[00:30:36] Yeah, exactly.

[00:30:38] According to a paper I found

[00:30:45] that I'm going to quote from a lot

[00:30:47] here because it's a super

[00:30:48] interesting paper, but the paper

[00:30:49] is called The Astonishingly Slow

[00:30:51] Progress Towards Surgical

[00:30:53] Anesthesia. It was published

[00:30:55] December 2021 by Adam Boosler,

[00:30:58] MD. According to this paper,

[00:31:01] Adam says or Dr. Boosler says

[00:31:04] there are descriptions and

[00:31:05] drawings of patients with tumors

[00:31:07] nearly as heavy as they were

[00:31:09] cystic masses that had to be

[00:31:11] carried along in carts and

[00:31:13] facial deformities that cause

[00:31:15] persistent misery all because of

[00:31:17] the fear of being conscious of

[00:31:19] the pain during surgery. People

[00:31:21] endured infections until they

[00:31:23] had to choose between surgery

[00:31:25] or certain death. Countless

[00:31:27] people must have died rather

[00:31:29] than feel the pain of the

[00:31:30] surgeon's cruel blade. Damn.

[00:31:33] Okay, I'm just going to back up

[00:31:34] here. You said people had things

[00:31:36] in their bodies so large they

[00:31:38] had to have like a wheelbarrow

[00:31:39] with them to carry it around?

[00:31:41] According to this, tumors nearly

[00:31:44] as heavy as they were cystic

[00:31:46] masses that had to be carried

[00:31:47] along in carts. That is and you

[00:31:49] have like a tumor the size of a

[00:31:51] prize-winning pumpkin. I'm

[00:31:52] imagining a guy driving one of

[00:31:54] those motorcycles with the side

[00:31:56] car next to it. Yeah, and he's

[00:31:57] just got a tumor with googly eyes

[00:31:59] sitting in the side and also

[00:32:01] wearing a helmet. Yeah. One of

[00:32:02] the other horrifically painful

[00:32:04] things that Dr. Boosler

[00:32:06] mentions in this paper that I

[00:32:07] guess some people had done was

[00:32:10] they would have their bladder

[00:32:11] stones removed through an

[00:32:13] incision in the perineum, which

[00:32:15] is the taint. Yep. That's not

[00:32:18] great. That's not a place you

[00:32:19] want. Not a place you want

[00:32:20] anything removed through. No, I

[00:32:22] will say this though. I think

[00:32:23] I'm probably ready for like a

[00:32:25] taint cutting if I had like

[00:32:27] kidney stones or bladder stones.

[00:32:28] Excuse me? It's one of the most

[00:32:31] painful fucking things. My buddy

[00:32:32] was staying with me a couple

[00:32:34] years ago and I was awoken in

[00:32:36] the middle of the night like the

[00:32:37] witching hour by my friend who

[00:32:39] was staying with us and he's

[00:32:41] like, I need to go to the

[00:32:42] hospital right now and I'm like

[00:32:43] excuse me. I'm in a dead dead

[00:32:45] asleep. Yeah, and I'm like what

[00:32:47] and he's like, yeah, I gotta go

[00:32:48] to the I don't know what's wrong

[00:32:49] by go to the hospital right now

[00:32:50] and so like I drove him to the

[00:32:52] hospital. He was just

[00:32:53] experiencing such excruciating

[00:32:54] pain. We get to the ER. It's

[00:32:56] Los Angeles. So even in the

[00:32:58] middle of the night, it's like

[00:32:59] 30 gunshot wounds. Yeah, there's

[00:33:00] a line. You know what I mean?

[00:33:01] Yeah, and they're like, what's

[00:33:02] the problem here? And he's like

[00:33:03] this and they're like we'll take

[00:33:05] you right fucking now. They

[00:33:07] literally just that moment put

[00:33:09] him in a wheelchair and took him

[00:33:11] away and I guess what he was

[00:33:12] dealing with was like a way too

[00:33:14] large to pass through kidney

[00:33:16] stones or bladder stone and the

[00:33:18] pain was so excruciating that he

[00:33:20] was like fuck the embarrassment

[00:33:22] of being on vacation at someone

[00:33:24] else's home. I need to ride to

[00:33:26] the fucking hospital right the

[00:33:27] second and then when they got

[00:33:28] there, they superseded his

[00:33:29] position. Yeah with people who

[00:33:31] literally had like a slash across

[00:33:33] their face bleeding everywhere

[00:33:34] and they're just like no this

[00:33:36] guy we know what this is and you

[00:33:37] got to deal with it. He got

[00:33:39] lucky. I know the real the real

[00:33:41] luck. I'm a before you say your

[00:33:42] story. The real luck he had was

[00:33:44] they gave him like a little like

[00:33:46] like sieve to piss in every time

[00:33:48] to collect the stone when it did

[00:33:49] pass because they had to like

[00:33:51] give him a bunch of like I don't

[00:33:52] know ultrasound or something to

[00:33:53] break it down which they did not

[00:33:54] have in the 1800s right. Oh

[00:33:56] good. So they didn't have to

[00:33:57] suck it out of his taint didn't

[00:33:59] have to suck it out of his taint

[00:34:00] didn't to wake up through that

[00:34:01] procedure, but he did have to be

[00:34:03] fully awake as it passed. So we

[00:34:04] were just he was drinking so much

[00:34:06] water everything because he did

[00:34:07] not want to have to pass on the

[00:34:08] plane home. All right. Yeah.

[00:34:10] Yeah. Yeah. They also said the

[00:34:11] altitude might affect the pain

[00:34:12] and everything. So he passed it

[00:34:14] into his weird little sieve when

[00:34:16] they were like boarding his

[00:34:17] flight like in the airport

[00:34:19] bathroom. So that's the real luck

[00:34:21] came in that is lucky. I'm

[00:34:23] surprised they let him leave the

[00:34:25] hospital with it still in there.

[00:34:27] No because they broke it down

[00:34:28] with ultrasound or whatever like

[00:34:30] things they use. They like broke

[00:34:32] it down and broke it down then

[00:34:33] like looked at it. However, you

[00:34:35] see inside a body. I don't know

[00:34:36] but they looked at it and they're

[00:34:37] like, okay. Yeah, this is going

[00:34:38] to be incredibly uncomfortable for

[00:34:40] you, but you can piss this out

[00:34:41] now like it's small enough to

[00:34:43] piss out because the thing that

[00:34:44] was happening is it couldn't I

[00:34:45] think enter the bladder or

[00:34:47] whatever. It was like that

[00:34:48] wherever it was to where it

[00:34:49] needed to be to be pissed out. It

[00:34:51] was too large to even get to that

[00:34:52] location. Yeah, so it was just

[00:34:54] like blocking up everything and

[00:34:55] fucking up everything. So they

[00:34:56] broke it down so they could at

[00:34:57] least pass that right and if it

[00:34:59] could pass that then it can pass

[00:35:00] through your dick, but they're

[00:35:01] like it's gonna really suck.

[00:35:03] Oh, well people were so afraid of

[00:35:06] surgery. No, you had a story to

[00:35:07] tell. Oh, I was just going to say

[00:35:09] when I went to the ER for a

[00:35:11] gallstone. I thought that was the

[00:35:13] most pain I could experience and

[00:35:15] they didn't fucking they maybe

[00:35:16] wait eight hours and I was full

[00:35:18] on. I don't like to make a scene

[00:35:20] over anything. I even like if I'm

[00:35:23] in public and I feel like I'm

[00:35:24] going to puke. I'll just like sit

[00:35:26] quietly and like clench and just

[00:35:28] not puke because I don't want to

[00:35:29] like have anybody worry or

[00:35:31] anything. I hurt so bad when I had

[00:35:34] my gallstone that I was full on

[00:35:36] like moaning in a chair in the ER

[00:35:39] just going. Well, what did you

[00:35:42] tell them? Well, I didn't know it

[00:35:44] was a gallstone. I guess that's

[00:35:45] also part of I was like I have the

[00:35:47] worst pain I've ever felt it's

[00:35:48] been going on. It would already

[00:35:50] been going on for four or five

[00:35:51] hours at this point, which is why

[00:35:52] I went to the ER and I was like

[00:35:55] this is it's terrible pain. I've

[00:35:56] never felt anything like it and I

[00:35:58] asked him if they could give me

[00:35:59] like a drug to knock me out. You

[00:36:01] know, I pointed to the 10 on the

[00:36:02] pain face thing. Yeah, and they

[00:36:04] were like no we can't give you

[00:36:06] anything until the doctor can see

[00:36:07] you but this was mid covid so

[00:36:09] people kept coming in hacking along

[00:36:11] up one guy came in coughing and

[00:36:14] wheezing and they put him in a

[00:36:15] wheelchair and then he just stopped

[00:36:17] moving after a while and a doctor

[00:36:19] came a doctor came out from the

[00:36:21] doors. The wheelchair is kind of

[00:36:22] in front of the doors and the

[00:36:23] doctor was just like can we get

[00:36:25] this guy out of here because he

[00:36:26] was like in the way. Yeah, it's

[00:36:28] like yeah get him back to where

[00:36:30] you can save his life because I

[00:36:32] think he's dying in the waiting

[00:36:34] room. Well, I see. Okay, so you

[00:36:36] had extra circumstances. It was

[00:36:37] during covid it was sounds like

[00:36:39] it was during the day. No, it was

[00:36:40] the middle of the night. I was

[00:36:41] just like this 3 in the morning.

[00:36:42] Yeah. Yeah. Well because I'd been

[00:36:44] up since you know, the pain started

[00:36:46] at like 9 or 10 at night. Did they

[00:36:48] ask you how long the pains and

[00:36:49] going on? Yeah, so that's the

[00:36:50] problem. You were like, oh, it's

[00:36:51] been going on for four hours. I'm

[00:36:52] like, oh, what's another four

[00:36:53] hours then idiot like this guy was

[00:36:55] like, no, it started and I came

[00:36:57] right here. Yeah. Yeah. So I

[00:36:59] don't remember every part of that

[00:37:00] night, but I remember we did not

[00:37:01] wait. Yeah. Well people were so

[00:37:03] afraid of surgery before

[00:37:05] anesthesia that they were often

[00:37:07] dragged literally kicking and

[00:37:10] screaming to the operating

[00:37:12] theater. Boosler's paper opens

[00:37:15] with kind of a fictional account

[00:37:17] of what this might have been like

[00:37:19] he says imagine it's 1842 London

[00:37:22] and you are suddenly awakened from

[00:37:24] a fevered and distressed state by

[00:37:25] several men summoned by your family

[00:37:27] to take you to one of London's

[00:37:29] public operating room theaters.

[00:37:31] You suffered a fracture one day

[00:37:33] ago and part of your lower femur is

[00:37:35] jutting through the skin above your

[00:37:37] knee. God amputation is the only

[00:37:41] way of saving you from a horrible

[00:37:43] death. However, afraid you are of

[00:37:45] that kind of death. You are equally

[00:37:48] if not more fearful of what you

[00:37:50] know is to come you arrive to find

[00:37:53] yourself in the center of an

[00:37:54] amphitheater surrounded by as many

[00:37:57] as 200 spectators that shouldn't be

[00:37:59] public that shouldn't be public. No,

[00:38:01] I guess at this time they're like

[00:38:03] public executions were probably still

[00:38:05] happening and it was like listen

[00:38:06] nine out of 10 of these are going to

[00:38:07] be execution. So come on by. Yeah, I

[00:38:10] mean, I can only imagine how popular

[00:38:12] this would be on Tick Tock if there

[00:38:14] was still public operating procedures,

[00:38:17] but they were surrounded by as many

[00:38:20] as 200 spectators there to see

[00:38:22] another of the night's amputations

[00:38:23] done by the renowned surgeon. Dr.

[00:38:26] Robert Liston. There is no anesthesia

[00:38:29] offered to avoid your inevitable

[00:38:31] suffering as listen enters the theater

[00:38:33] dressed in his apron stiffened by other

[00:38:36] patients blood. I mean his

[00:38:38] executioners robe. Yeah, the audience of

[00:38:41] medical students and the public remains

[00:38:43] hushed while students have come to learn

[00:38:46] from the renowned fastest surgeon of his

[00:38:48] time others come to see the gore as

[00:38:51] entertainment think of the unimaginable

[00:38:54] horror you would experience when

[00:38:56] observing the bloodstained surgical

[00:38:58] instruments laid out the audience there

[00:39:01] to be regaled in your torment and the

[00:39:03] men there to hold you down. I'm going to

[00:39:05] pause you here. I have a couple questions.

[00:39:07] Yeah, right away. Okay. Let's just work

[00:39:10] on these questions backwards from when

[00:39:12] they were told so bloodstained equipment

[00:39:14] so just reusing equipment. It sounds like

[00:39:17] yes, that's not great. No a guy covered

[00:39:19] in blood not a great first sight and

[00:39:22] then going back even further than that

[00:39:23] the fastest surgeon in the West or

[00:39:25] whatever. What the fuck was that moniker

[00:39:27] he had the renowned fastest surgeon of

[00:39:30] his time because as we will see fast

[00:39:32] surgery was considered one of the keys

[00:39:35] to successful surgery. Well 200 people

[00:39:38] was there like a I don't know like the

[00:39:40] way magicians used to have artwork

[00:39:42] outside was it like a poster for come

[00:39:44] see the fastest surgery in the West

[00:39:46] because 200 people that's kind of crazy.

[00:39:49] I think it was probably like word of

[00:39:51] mouth, you know, it was the way you want

[00:39:53] people to find out about your podcast.

[00:39:55] You'll never see someone die faster than

[00:39:57] when this guy works on them. Yeah, I mean

[00:40:00] I assume a lot of those people were

[00:40:02] medical students. I mean, you you know

[00:40:04] what one of these surgical theaters

[00:40:06] looks like right? Yeah, I definitely know

[00:40:08] it and in my mind immediately goes to

[00:40:10] Seinfeld where he drops the junior mint

[00:40:12] in the body accidentally from the

[00:40:14] surgical theater. Well Kramer or somebody

[00:40:16] like drops a mint down there. I'm sure

[00:40:18] many horrible things were dropped in the

[00:40:21] mid 1800s into surgical patients. There's

[00:40:24] a great story about how fast Liston was

[00:40:26] that I'll get to in a second here. But

[00:40:28] where was I how terrifying it would be to

[00:40:31] get surgery into public auditorium? Oh,

[00:40:33] yeah, think of the unimaginable horror

[00:40:35] you experience when observing the blood

[00:40:37] stain surgical instruments laid out and

[00:40:39] add I agree. Why are they bloody? Why

[00:40:41] didn't we clean these? Yeah, I've seen

[00:40:43] like you start charging admission for

[00:40:45] this public theater and then maybe you

[00:40:46] can buy some new equipment. Yeah, the

[00:40:49] business theory here is terrible the

[00:40:51] audience there to be regaled in your

[00:40:53] torment and the men there to hold you

[00:40:55] down the terror you feel causes you to

[00:40:58] fight Liston's assistance, but to no

[00:40:59] avail Liston's men overpower you and the

[00:41:02] surgery commences as you experience the

[00:41:06] most unfathomable pain as he speedily

[00:41:09] makes deep incisions till fashion large

[00:41:12] flaps of tissue to cover the stump below

[00:41:15] your knee Liston stops the bleeding with

[00:41:18] forceps and ligature and rapidly saws

[00:41:20] through the bone proximal to the

[00:41:23] compound fracture. He finishes by

[00:41:25] skillfully sewing up the stump left

[00:41:27] behind with no hint of antiseptic concern

[00:41:30] throughout the entire operation. Okay, I

[00:41:33] have a question. Yes, and it's not even a

[00:41:35] medical question. Do you think they paid

[00:41:38] these guys these galoots these goons who

[00:41:41] it's their job just to hold you down? I

[00:41:43] don't know like that's weirdest job. What

[00:41:46] do you do? Babe? You know, I've been

[00:41:47] working all day holding dudes down

[00:41:49] as they get surgery against their will.

[00:41:51] Is it too much to ask? Is there some

[00:41:53] food on the table when I get home like

[00:41:55] whatever the 1800s, you know man who

[00:41:57] works in a surgery would talk like yeah,

[00:41:59] maybe that was their version of like

[00:42:00] volunteering. Maybe there was some real

[00:42:02] freaks out there who yeah, there's

[00:42:05] definitely all four of these guys are

[00:42:07] hard as hell. Yeah. Yeah, it's really

[00:42:10] weird too because it's like, you know,

[00:42:12] you don't got to do a job like that. You

[00:42:13] can come work with us in the garbage

[00:42:14] crew like that seems less disgusting and

[00:42:17] he's like no, no, no, no. It's the only

[00:42:18] job around for a mile and I'm like no

[00:42:20] I'm telling him we work in the garbage

[00:42:21] crew. We got spots open. Nobody wants to

[00:42:23] take dead bodies in garbage and these

[00:42:25] guys like oh dead bodies. I'm interested

[00:42:27] he comes. Why didn't you say so? Well,

[00:42:29] you should have led with that dude. You're

[00:42:31] burying the lead before you bury the

[00:42:33] lead. Hey, that's pretty good. That's

[00:42:35] pretty good. Yeah, dr. Robert Liston was

[00:42:37] a real guy and the paper later notes

[00:42:40] that he was so fast that he wants I love

[00:42:44] this. He once cut off an assistant's

[00:42:46] fingers while amputating a patient's

[00:42:49] leg. Oh shit. So he moved he moves so

[00:42:52] quickly that he you know, I don't doesn't

[00:42:54] say how he did it. I'll tell you how he

[00:42:56] did it for guys for limbs. It's

[00:42:58] definitely one of the hold you down

[00:42:59] glutes. That's true. His finger would

[00:43:01] have been holding down the leg. Yeah,

[00:43:02] probably close to where he's trying to

[00:43:04] keep it like still from jumping and

[00:43:06] going crazy. And so he was just cut his

[00:43:09] finger off accidentally, but here's the

[00:43:10] kicker both the assistant and the

[00:43:13] patient died of sepsis following the

[00:43:15] surgery. That's a galoot down to the

[00:43:18] loot down galoot down dr. Liston's

[00:43:22] rivals in London's medical community

[00:43:25] were delighted to advertise that he had

[00:43:27] killed two people with one surgery a

[00:43:29] 200% mortality rate. Wow, dude. That's a

[00:43:33] dick like crazy dick move. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:43:36] they're taking out spots in the paper

[00:43:38] and shit about it. Yeah. So you want to go

[00:43:40] to dr. Liston it'll be the doctor last

[00:43:42] thing you do. Yeah, we'll get to this in

[00:43:45] a little bit but part of the reason and

[00:43:47] I this may have had something to do with

[00:43:49] why this suggests that maybe the

[00:43:51] instruments were still bloody is that we

[00:43:53] actually or by we I mean humans doctors

[00:43:57] came to anesthesia before germ theory

[00:44:02] was like a fully settled debate. So we

[00:44:06] knew how to do surgeries and put people

[00:44:09] under even before people agreed on

[00:44:11] whether or not infections were caused

[00:44:14] by germs or bacteria. Gotcha. They

[00:44:17] weren't entirely sure what caused them

[00:44:19] or there wasn't an agreement about what

[00:44:21] was causing these deaths. So, you know,

[00:44:24] it's probably like some guy in the germ

[00:44:25] theory side was like germs can kill you

[00:44:28] and it was like yeah, but you know his

[00:44:29] brother works for the medical equipment

[00:44:31] company. So they're just saying that we

[00:44:33] have to buy more knives. Yeah. I got these

[00:44:36] bloody knives that work perfectly fine

[00:44:38] man. I mean they're dull and everyone

[00:44:39] keeps complaining. They're dull and that

[00:44:40] hurts more but like I'm not going to buy

[00:44:42] a second set of scalpels from Larry's

[00:44:45] brother-in-law. Yeah. Yeah germ theory

[00:44:48] come on pal this germ theory things

[00:44:50] putting line in your pockets pal. Dr.

[00:44:53] Boosler notes that humanity really whiffed

[00:44:56] on painkillers for like 2,000 years not

[00:44:59] until they found out a way to get you

[00:45:00] addicted to them and then ruin your life

[00:45:02] and make money from it. That's what it

[00:45:05] was all moving towards in a paper

[00:45:07] published in 2010 three scholars from

[00:45:10] the University of Crete examined the

[00:45:12] Hippocratic collection in its original

[00:45:14] Greek University of Crete like the

[00:45:16] island in Greece. Yeah. Yeah where that

[00:45:18] was like you're a professor a minotaur.

[00:45:20] No, it's where they keep the

[00:45:23] Hippocratic collection. I guess. Oh, okay

[00:45:26] and they found evidence that the first

[00:45:28] physician to use the words anesthesia

[00:45:31] and analgesia in medical writing was

[00:45:34] Hippocrates himself the guy who invented

[00:45:37] the do no harm Hippocratic oath that all

[00:45:39] doctors take Hippocrates not only

[00:45:42] defined pains characteristics and

[00:45:44] identified opium and other hypnotic

[00:45:46] substances to relieve pain, but he was

[00:45:49] also the first to assert the idea that

[00:45:51] the unconscious patient is insensitive

[00:45:54] to pain which I think is kind of

[00:45:56] interesting the people before that I

[00:45:58] guess maybe thought that even if you

[00:45:59] were unconscious you would feel pain and

[00:46:01] he was the first one to be like now

[00:46:03] this is a good way to keep him not

[00:46:05] moving and this is during like ancient

[00:46:07] time yeah right yeah so in order to get

[00:46:10] that knowledge you have to have people

[00:46:12] unconscious so even if you're just

[00:46:15] punching them in the face or giving

[00:46:18] them all that like eating alive schnapps

[00:46:20] from Germany yeah like why isn't the

[00:46:22] fastest gun in the West trying any of

[00:46:23] this why is he just hired for galoots

[00:46:25] well we're gonna we're gonna get how

[00:46:26] one of these galoots like give you the

[00:46:28] fucking go to sleep chokehold or

[00:46:29] something we're gonna get to that in a

[00:46:31] little bit because there are some

[00:46:32] reasons they're sort of dumb reasons but

[00:46:34] there were real reasons dr. Boosler says

[00:46:36] that humanity then essentially ignored

[00:46:39] these learnings about analgesia and

[00:46:42] anesthesia for over two millennia

[00:46:44] postponing the triumph over surgical

[00:46:46] pain and I don't know that we can really

[00:46:48] say Hippocrates was ignored on this

[00:46:51] because lots of cultures made attempts

[00:46:53] at various kinds of anesthetics I think

[00:46:56] they just didn't work very well or

[00:47:00] consistently you know obviously there's

[00:47:03] booze which is like the oldest known you

[00:47:07] know relaxant depressant whatever and

[00:47:09] there's evidence that ancient

[00:47:11] Mesopotamians knew about the power of

[00:47:13] the poppy to create opium as far back as

[00:47:16] 3500 BC the ancient Egyptians also had

[00:47:20] some surgical instruments as well as

[00:47:23] crude anesthetics and sedatives

[00:47:25] including possibly an extract prepared

[00:47:28] from the mandrake fruit oh shit what's

[00:47:31] up mandrake what's up I haven't seen you

[00:47:33] in a minute yeah when they weren't being

[00:47:35] used to create homunculi I guess they

[00:47:38] could knock you out for surgery or maybe

[00:47:41] you could create homunculus to hold you

[00:47:44] down if you didn't have glue they would

[00:47:45] be that's a Gulliver's Travel situation

[00:47:48] you can't yeah that's you need so many

[00:47:49] hermonculi yeah what what's it what's a

[00:47:52] more effective setup for surgery 500

[00:47:55] homunculi or for glutes I think if

[00:47:58] you're paying if it's Hollywood they'll

[00:48:00] do the like 500 homunculi is the price of

[00:48:02] one glue yep so six of one half it is in

[00:48:05] the other but if you're paying the

[00:48:06] homunculi the way you should be then

[00:48:08] yeah you got to go for glutes you're

[00:48:09] gonna go bankrupt yeah most interesting

[00:48:12] to me is the work of a Chinese surgeon

[00:48:14] named wah too hua space T u o wah too

[00:48:21] who lived from 145 to 220 ad oh my god I

[00:48:26] don't know in my brain I was like this

[00:48:28] guy only lives for a couple hours that's

[00:48:29] gonna be like 145 to 220 in the

[00:48:32] afternoon yeah until 220 he rose from

[00:48:35] poverty and began his career working at

[00:48:37] a local herbal pharmacy where he

[00:48:39] carefully observed the practice of

[00:48:41] medicine he sympathized to the common

[00:48:43] people whose lives were suppressed by

[00:48:45] the government during this period and

[00:48:46] dedicated his entire life to helping them

[00:48:48] he was so dedicated to helping the

[00:48:50] common man that he refused to accept

[00:48:52] offers of the position as the supreme

[00:48:54] physician in the Imperial Palace which I

[00:48:57] think is what we should call instead of

[00:48:59] the surgeon general I really I prefer

[00:49:02] supreme physician sounds super cool I

[00:49:05] don't take your ass to North Korea or

[00:49:06] something then I don't know I don't

[00:49:07] love anything supreme unless it's an

[00:49:09] offering at Taco Bell and then the shits

[00:49:13] that you'll take after those also be

[00:49:15] supreme yeah be supreme bro don't go in

[00:49:18] there man it's supremely fucked up that

[00:49:20] bathroom dude

[00:49:21] Hua's practice was so popular that he

[00:49:24] could never care for everyone who

[00:49:25] sought his help and he started to

[00:49:27] wonder why people were always sick and

[00:49:29] what would make them better so Hua one

[00:49:32] of the reasons I'm fascinated by him is

[00:49:34] he concluded that chronic illnesses

[00:49:36] were due in part to a lack of physical

[00:49:39] activity and proposed regular exercise

[00:49:42] as a remedy basically inventing

[00:49:45] preventative care he called his system

[00:49:48] and I'm gonna fuck this up

[00:49:50] wu-qin-shi five animal frolics which is

[00:49:54] an exercise that imitates the physical

[00:49:56] movements of tigers deer monkeys bears

[00:49:59] and birds huh yeah which sounds like a

[00:50:02] good way to get square about to say he's

[00:50:04] like oh maybe you guys are sick all the

[00:50:05] time because you're not ripped so go out

[00:50:07] there and like yeah stairs and yeah yeah

[00:50:10] I love it I love it he's basically just

[00:50:11] like throw a little martial arts in

[00:50:12] your life and you will feel the benefits

[00:50:14] by preventative care that is just

[00:50:16] working out a little bit yeah it's

[00:50:17] getting some movements in and if you got

[00:50:19] to make believe you're a bear to do it

[00:50:20] then make a little imagination during a

[00:50:24] workout it's fine yeah this is where Hua

[00:50:26] crosses paths with the history of

[00:50:28] anesthetics he believed that for diseases

[00:50:30] that could not be treated with

[00:50:32] acupuncture and herbs and I guess

[00:50:35] frolicking the only solution was

[00:50:38] surgical so he performed he frequently

[00:50:41] performed surgery on various parts of

[00:50:43] the body by using an herbal formula he

[00:50:46] developed called ma-fei san a numbing

[00:50:49] and boiling powder which is what that

[00:50:51] roughly translates to for systemic

[00:50:54] anesthesia so why didn't everyone just

[00:50:57] use this shit because to this day no one

[00:51:00] knows exactly what was in it because

[00:51:03] Hua Tuo was right about the rich and

[00:51:06] powerful they ruined it for everybody

[00:51:09] basically Hua was called upon to help

[00:51:12] with the Emperor's migraines and at

[00:51:15] first he solved them with acupuncture

[00:51:17] but when they wouldn't go away he told

[00:51:19] the Emperor that the only solution would

[00:51:21] be to induce anesthesia and surgically

[00:51:24] open his head to remove the cause of the

[00:51:27] headache oh no which you can imagine the

[00:51:30] paranoid Emperor in what must have been

[00:51:34] one of the great misunderstandings of

[00:51:36] all time thought that this meant that

[00:51:38] Hua was making an attempt to assassinate

[00:51:41] him but to say that's treason like

[00:51:43] offering that diagnosis is treason yeah

[00:51:45] and sentenced him to death so Hua went

[00:51:48] to prison and while he was waiting to

[00:51:50] die in prison he wrote down all of his

[00:51:53] records and knowledge and tried to give

[00:51:55] them to a prison guard so that his

[00:51:57] knowledge would survive after his death

[00:52:00] but the guard was so scared of the

[00:52:02] Emperor that he refused to take the

[00:52:04] papers out of the prison and gave them

[00:52:06] back to Hua who got so frustrated that

[00:52:09] he basically said fuck it and burned all

[00:52:11] the papers Wow and that's that's why you

[00:52:13] gotta not have one guy in charge yeah

[00:52:16] although I will say this story sounds a

[00:52:19] little bit like the story they tell at

[00:52:21] like the whole like the prison guard was

[00:52:23] so afraid of the Emperor that he gave

[00:52:25] the all the papers back I don't know

[00:52:27] feels like maybe it was shaped by time a

[00:52:30] little bit yeah cuz he was probably

[00:52:32] like fuck you you piece of shit traitor

[00:52:34] and in like I don't want your papers you

[00:52:36] John Wilkes booth piece of shit yeah but

[00:52:38] now they make him into this guy who was

[00:52:40] like oh yeah I wasn't just a piece of

[00:52:41] shit I yeah I was afraid for my own life

[00:52:44] exactly but also like who the fuck does

[00:52:46] a prison guard know who is he what's the

[00:52:47] next logical place those papers are

[00:52:49] going like to the trash can anyway well

[00:52:52] and I also don't think you know I mean I

[00:52:54] guess back in ancient times you know you

[00:52:57] would you really could get killed for

[00:52:59] every little thing but it seems like the

[00:53:01] Emperor would have some mercy for being

[00:53:03] like yeah maybe I don't really trust this

[00:53:05] guy but he did seem to help like half of

[00:53:07] my kingdom it's been not my experience

[00:53:10] when the word Emperor is thrown around

[00:53:12] regardless of where in the world it is

[00:53:14] let's feel like Marcus Aurelius or

[00:53:16] something I don't think you're known for

[00:53:18] your smart behavior and like the guy the

[00:53:20] guy threw the dude in prison and gave him

[00:53:21] a death sentence I don't think he's gonna

[00:53:22] be like yeah I should probably hand out

[00:53:24] these paperwork so it's like one time he

[00:53:25] was a tight guy he would not kill him if

[00:53:27] you thought one time he was a tight guy

[00:53:29] true true well I got really curious to

[00:53:32] dig a little deeper on did you start

[00:53:34] googling how to become an emperor yeah

[00:53:36] it sounds so intriguing to me I'm so you

[00:53:39] can do whatever you want dude complete

[00:53:41] and absolute power Google how to I

[00:53:44] didn't like my dentist two weeks ago

[00:53:46] how can I throw him in prison yeah Bing

[00:53:49] how do I become an emperor tell me now

[00:53:50] no I got curious about what was in this

[00:53:53] mafei san powder and I found a website

[00:53:58] that defines mafei san as a combination

[00:54:03] of three words ma meaning cannabis hemp

[00:54:09] numbed or tingling there's no way fei

[00:54:12] meaning boiling or bubbling and san

[00:54:15] meaning to break up or scatter or

[00:54:18] medicine in powder form so therefore the

[00:54:21] word mafei san probably means something

[00:54:24] like cannabis boil powder which sounds

[00:54:28] like something we should take before

[00:54:30] recording sometime yeah I mean it sounds

[00:54:32] like there's making sort of like weed

[00:54:33] tea yeah basically the exact formula does

[00:54:37] still remain unclear and modern medicine

[00:54:39] is still stumped as to what exactly he

[00:54:41] cooked up there seems to be some

[00:54:43] evidence that it works fairly

[00:54:44] consistently it put people under for a

[00:54:46] very long time like I one of the things

[00:54:50] I read was saying that you would drink

[00:54:52] this shit and then you'd wake up like a

[00:54:55] month later what do you rip van winkle

[00:54:57] what the fuck dude well yeah like you

[00:54:59] would go out he would do the surgery and

[00:55:01] then there was this long recovery period

[00:55:03] well then yeah and then you would die

[00:55:05] from when the wolves ate you because

[00:55:07] you just been a guy asleep for fucking

[00:55:09] months in the woods you fell asleep in a field

[00:55:11] yeah so it's like how the operation was

[00:55:14] a success great to hear then why are

[00:55:15] you burying him the wolves just again

[00:55:17] the wolves just okay maybe one of our

[00:55:19] premium rewards should be you and I can

[00:55:22] try to create ma face on powder no and

[00:55:25] no send it out to our listeners no that's

[00:55:29] even before we got to that last part

[00:55:31] which is actually the worst part of the

[00:55:32] idea which is the most illegal part yeah

[00:55:35] don't do that let's not a felony humans

[00:55:38] humans bumbled forward and throughout

[00:55:41] 1200 to 1500 ad in England a potion

[00:55:44] called Dwale was used as an anesthetic

[00:55:47] it was an alcohol-based mixture that

[00:55:49] contained bile opium lettuce briony

[00:55:52] henbane the first one was bile the first

[00:55:55] ingredient is bile I right away I'm no

[00:55:57] thank you

[00:55:58] well it's an out so it's an alcohol-based

[00:56:01] mixture so I guess the first ingredient

[00:56:03] would be alcohol okay but then bile

[00:56:06] opium lettuce briony henbane hemlock and

[00:56:10] vinegar oh my god that sounds like some

[00:56:13] shit my grandma would make from the old

[00:56:15] country but then they added bile I feel

[00:56:17] like there's a cocktail bar in LA that

[00:56:19] probably sells this I feel like some

[00:56:21] there's probably it's a $40 cocktail

[00:56:24] it's at Erewhon yeah it's the worst shit

[00:56:26] you've ever tasted I mean this basically

[00:56:28] if you've ever had one of those air one

[00:56:29] like wellness shots I think this is one

[00:56:32] of those sure they're disgusting and

[00:56:35] like I said there was always booze it's

[00:56:37] the oldest known sedative but unless you

[00:56:39] were drinking enough of it to lapse into

[00:56:40] a coma which I'm sure some people

[00:56:43] probably did I can't imagine it really

[00:56:45] helping that much I mean I've you and I

[00:56:48] have had our share of drinks yeah and I

[00:56:51] feel like even when I'm very drunk if I

[00:56:54] was getting surgery performed on me I

[00:56:57] don't think I'd be like well this is fine

[00:57:00] well this is the position I took an

[00:57:01] eating alive where I'm like not enough

[00:57:03] schnapps in the fucking world to yeah

[00:57:05] cut my dong off and feed it to somebody

[00:57:07] or whatever like yeah surgeons also

[00:57:09] didn't really like using booze because

[00:57:11] they thought that anything that

[00:57:12] intoxicated a patient increased blood

[00:57:15] loss which was the leading cause of

[00:57:17] death during surgery that's true yeah

[00:57:19] it's not inaccurate I'm saying they're

[00:57:21] like that like you'll bleed out with all

[00:57:22] the alcohol right the alcohol will thin

[00:57:23] your blood fins your blood yeah yeah

[00:57:25] this thought also initially caused some

[00:57:28] issues with using anesthetics but more

[00:57:30] on that in a minute another shocking fact

[00:57:32] from Boosler's paper is that there's very

[00:57:34] little written record of surgeries

[00:57:37] psychological impact on patients without

[00:57:39] anesthesia especially when you think

[00:57:41] about how many surgeries there must have

[00:57:43] been throughout history I mean untold

[00:57:46] tens of thousands if not millions of

[00:57:49] surgeries occurred but no one ever wrote

[00:57:54] down much about it there's even fewer

[00:57:56] descriptions of how surgeons were

[00:57:58] affected well it's because the things

[00:58:00] you've described to me in the public

[00:58:02] theater everything you've described to

[00:58:04] me is a situation where I can imagine

[00:58:06] people being like yeah let's never talk

[00:58:08] about that again huh yeah like so that's

[00:58:10] how I feel about it like let's just make

[00:58:12] believe that this blackout that day in

[00:58:14] the journal yeah basically what did you

[00:58:16] do today I had four galoots hold a guy

[00:58:18] down as he screamed and screamed and

[00:58:19] screamed and then he died anyway so

[00:58:22] anyway let's bury that as far as we can

[00:58:25] inside and never talk about it again I

[00:58:27] mean yes partially there's not a lot of

[00:58:30] writing because surgery was so gruesome

[00:58:33] that surgeons didn't like thinking about

[00:58:35] it any more than the patients did

[00:58:37] there are stories of or not even

[00:58:40] stories but references to surgeons who

[00:58:42] felt like they were before they were

[00:58:44] operating on someone it felt like they

[00:58:46] were going to a hanging they said

[00:58:48] sometimes surgeons would cry and vomit

[00:58:52] after they finish their surgeries so the

[00:58:55] nightmarish experiences of patients who

[00:58:57] survived surgery and the surgeons who

[00:58:59] operated on them you know I think like

[00:59:01] you just said really precluded any desire

[00:59:04] to record the event yeah for posterity

[00:59:08] Boosler highlights the experience of

[00:59:10] Francis Burney a 19th century novelist

[00:59:14] playwright and diarist who wrote a

[00:59:16] letter to her sister describing the quote

[00:59:19] profound evil of her four-hour

[00:59:22] mastectomy for a tumor in 1811 just so

[00:59:26] people know even though this was written

[00:59:28] in the 19th century the next minute or

[00:59:30] minute and a half is pretty graphic so

[00:59:32] if you don't like descriptions of

[00:59:35] surgery hit that fast-forward button you

[00:59:38] have been warned graphic story incoming

[00:59:40] in 3 2 1

[00:59:42] Bernie had put off the surgery for years

[00:59:45] until her condition left her no choice

[00:59:47] and this is a piece of her writing about

[00:59:50] her four-hour no painkiller mastectomy

[00:59:55] she says when the wound was made and the

[00:59:58] instrument withdrawn the pain seemed

[01:00:01] undiminished for the air that suddenly

[01:00:04] rushed into those delicate parts felt

[01:00:06] like a mass of minute but sharp and

[01:00:09] forked pointards which I guess were a

[01:00:11] form of small dagger that were tearing

[01:00:14] the edges of the wound but when again I

[01:00:17] felt the instrument describing a curve

[01:00:19] cutting against the grain if I may so

[01:00:23] say while the flesh resisted in a manner

[01:00:26] so forcible as to oppose and tire the

[01:00:29] hand of the operator I am I'm not

[01:00:32] responding because I'm in shock of what

[01:00:34] I'm hearing yeah yet when the dreadful

[01:00:38] steel was plunged into the breast cutting

[01:00:41] through veins arteries flesh nerves I

[01:00:44] needed no injunctions not to restrain my

[01:00:47] cries I began a scream that lasted

[01:00:50] unremittingly during the whole time of

[01:00:53] the incision and I almost marvel that it

[01:00:56] rings not in my ears still so

[01:00:59] excruciating was the agony so it took

[01:01:01] like a professional writer to have a

[01:01:04] surgery before we got kind of someone

[01:01:06] able to communicate what just happened

[01:01:08] yeah I mean you know I've other people

[01:01:11] may have written about their surgeries

[01:01:13] but this one is pretty graphic and

[01:01:17] pretty horrible so good on Francis for

[01:01:20] being able to put into words something

[01:01:23] that I don't know that I would be able

[01:01:24] to put into words so Boosler says that

[01:01:27] after the operation Bernie could not

[01:01:29] think or speak of the incident for

[01:01:31] nearly nine months she felt so utterly

[01:01:34] sick and what had happened to her that

[01:01:35] she battled incessant headaches and again

[01:01:38] she calls this profoundly evil and this

[01:01:41] was something done to save her life and

[01:01:43] that's one of the things that's got to be

[01:01:45] so mind-numbingly difficult to process

[01:01:48] about a surgery like this that you

[01:01:51] experienced that much pain it's got to

[01:01:54] feel evil it's got to feel completely

[01:01:57] wrong but it does save your life yeah

[01:01:59] it's kind of a thing where it's like I

[01:02:01] curse the God that would put this tumor

[01:02:03] in me but then also am I also supposed

[01:02:06] to thank the God that created a person

[01:02:08] who can take it out yeah yeah yeah it's

[01:02:10] so fucking crazy it's so I mean I you

[01:02:13] and I were talking about this last week

[01:02:14] we were walking somewhere when I was

[01:02:16] researching this and I just I never I

[01:02:18] never thought much about the idea that

[01:02:21] like how much we take for granted basic

[01:02:24] painkillers that it's really only been

[01:02:26] around for like 200 years but like so

[01:02:29] much basic tooth pain basic colonoscopy

[01:02:33] basic any kind of invasive or difficult

[01:02:36] procedures you know not even just

[01:02:38] amputations but like all of that stuff

[01:02:40] was life-changingly painful until 200

[01:02:43] years ago and yet I couldn't tell you

[01:02:45] anyone's name who invented it I mean I

[01:02:46] know Salk I guess for like penicillin

[01:02:48] yeah case in point as thinking of the

[01:02:52] polio vaccine Jonas Salk had nothing to

[01:02:55] do with penicillin that was a guy named

[01:02:57] Alexander Fleming who discovered it by

[01:02:59] accident when returning from holiday if

[01:03:02] potentially changing the world for the

[01:03:03] better by taking time off work isn't

[01:03:05] reason enough to give everyone more

[01:03:07] vacation time in these here United States

[01:03:09] I don't know what is but I don't know

[01:03:12] anybody who invented the first Advil or

[01:03:14] whatever unless their name was Harrison

[01:03:16] Advil and I well I always knew I have an

[01:03:19] answer for you right now oh shit well

[01:03:21] not about Advil and yet whatever name

[01:03:23] you're gonna tell me they don't have a

[01:03:24] day named after them but we do have like

[01:03:26] National Hot Dog Day so whatever where's

[01:03:29] the justice in that the relentless

[01:03:35] surgical horror continued unabated until

[01:03:39] October 16th 1846 when a Boston dentist

[01:03:43] William TG Morton used sulfuric ether to

[01:03:47] anesthetize a man who needed surgery to

[01:03:50] remove a vascular tumor from his neck

[01:03:53] okay he used it but there's nothing on

[01:03:55] old Billy Morton coming up with this

[01:03:57] procedure because there has to be a

[01:03:58] couple people being like don't go over

[01:03:59] Billy's house and give you something

[01:04:01] that will fuck you up and he quote

[01:04:03] unquote says I'm trying to figure out

[01:04:05] the ratio yeah right

[01:04:08] William TG Cosby old Billy Cosby called

[01:04:12] his creation lethion named after the

[01:04:15] Leth River of Greek mythology noted for

[01:04:18] its waters that helped erase painful

[01:04:20] memories I love that I love a educated

[01:04:23] populace like I fucking love a person

[01:04:25] who was able to come up with that because

[01:04:27] they're well read enough to even make

[01:04:29] that connection is pretty I love that

[01:04:30] shit yeah I couldn't if I came up with

[01:04:32] it today I'd be like this is

[01:04:34] Advil let's go to sleep gas yeah like I

[01:04:37] would have no interesting thing about

[01:04:38] like well it's based on the Greek God of

[01:04:40] sleeping sometimes but not all night

[01:04:43] that book smart knowledge really it's

[01:04:45] that kind of knowledge is only good for

[01:04:47] naming stuff like this because there's

[01:04:49] no other that's true I'm sure everyone

[01:04:51] else in the room was like go to sleep

[01:04:52] gas Billy it's of course called go to

[01:04:54] sleep gas he's like well I don't like

[01:04:55] the connotation in like a hundred years

[01:04:57] of what that could be you asked about

[01:04:59] Billy Morton coming up with this stuff

[01:05:02] and I so the history of it that I found

[01:05:05] it felt a little bit backwards to me but

[01:05:08] at least the way that I read it it seems

[01:05:10] like he used this and then started

[01:05:12] experimenting with it to get better at

[01:05:14] using it but maybe he started

[01:05:16] experimenting with it first either way

[01:05:18] it says that this article that I read

[01:05:20] said that Morton started buying ether

[01:05:22] from a local chemist and quote began

[01:05:24] exposing himself and a menagerie of pets

[01:05:27] to ether fumes satisfied with its safety

[01:05:30] and reliability he began using ether on

[01:05:33] his dental patients okay three things I

[01:05:35] love about that sentence exposing

[01:05:37] himself well that's I'm gonna get my

[01:05:39] let me get my numbers out one he bought

[01:05:41] it from a local chemist which is very

[01:05:43] booby-trapped Halloween candy where it's

[01:05:45] just like there was a time when you can

[01:05:46] buy anything you want to that he used it

[01:05:50] on himself I like that he like Green

[01:05:51] Goblin himself before he used other

[01:05:53] people and then three what was the last

[01:05:55] thing that sentence you said he began

[01:05:57] exposing himself and a menagerie of pets

[01:05:59] to you know that's it okay yes and three

[01:06:01] the correct use of menagerie yeah a lot

[01:06:04] of times people fuck that word up which

[01:06:06] just a collection of animals not

[01:06:07] collection of anything mmm just

[01:06:09] specifically animals so I like that

[01:06:11] those are my three things that I loved

[01:06:12] about what you just said excellent I

[01:06:22] can't I part of this show I could stop

[01:06:24] the show I'm the co-emperor of this show

[01:06:26] if I want to stop and just say I love

[01:06:27] something I can do that no one can stop

[01:06:30] me I do think I want to give a one-star

[01:06:32] review for enthusiasm with it is very

[01:06:36] funny to imagine him Green Goblin

[01:06:38] himself and all his pets and showing up

[01:06:41] just more and more strung out on ether

[01:06:43] every time he shows up at the dentist

[01:06:45] office who did this to you Billy I did

[01:06:48] okay I did and it's fine now no one wake

[01:06:52] my pets up for a while or if you go to

[01:06:55] my house please tell the cleaner they are

[01:06:57] just sleeping do not sweep my dogs away

[01:07:00] so get this dr. Howard Markle writes on

[01:07:03] PBS org soon mobs of tooth-aching

[01:07:07] dollar-waving Bostonians made their way

[01:07:10] to Morton's office word of this what's

[01:07:13] that I just love that imagery of these

[01:07:15] people cartoonishly waving dollars like

[01:07:17] I need with the ice pack like wrapped

[01:07:19] around their head like what's the

[01:07:21] dollars for the dollar it actually cost

[01:07:23] a dollar to get the ice the surgeries

[01:07:25] free so they pay for the ice back yeah

[01:07:28] surgeons talking about their work the

[01:07:30] way that writers do like why you know I

[01:07:32] just do this for free honestly but word

[01:07:36] of this new form of painless surgery

[01:07:38] spread quickly to the medical world

[01:07:40] according to an article written by

[01:07:42] Kristen O'Keefe aptowitz a plastic

[01:07:45] surgeon named dr. Thomas Dent Mütter was

[01:07:48] the first to embrace this new drug he

[01:07:51] performed Philadelphia's first ether

[01:07:53] anesthesia surgery just one month after

[01:07:56] Morton performed his in Boston but in a

[01:07:59] crazy twist surgeons didn't embrace

[01:08:01] Morton in Mutters progress within weeks

[01:08:04] of Mutters successful ether surgery the

[01:08:07] drug was actually banned in several

[01:08:10] Philadelphia hospitals for years which

[01:08:12] sounds completely insane but a few things

[01:08:15] contributed to this decision according

[01:08:17] to aptowitz speaking with and attaining

[01:08:19] permission from the patients on which

[01:08:22] they were operating had been part of the

[01:08:24] surgical process since the beginning of

[01:08:26] practicing surgery to remove that

[01:08:29] interaction by using anesthesia seemed

[01:08:32] completely foreign to them and one

[01:08:33] surgeon compared it to it would be like

[01:08:35] removing one of his senses oh my gosh

[01:08:38] just people who are it's kind of like in

[01:08:39] writers rooms where comedy writers rooms

[01:08:42] at least where it's like sometimes you

[01:08:43] work really late 2-3 in the morning and

[01:08:45] you start to sometimes get this idea in

[01:08:48] your head that like you'll have one or

[01:08:50] two times at like 1 a.m. you have this

[01:08:52] great idea and you like break something

[01:08:53] in the room and you start to get it in

[01:08:55] your head that like if you're having a

[01:08:57] hard time breaking something or making

[01:08:59] good material at like 8 p.m. or 6 p.m.

[01:09:01] you're like well when 1 a.m. comes that's

[01:09:03] when the great ideas come it's like you

[01:09:05] know it's completely not true but for

[01:09:07] some reason you'd like psychologically

[01:09:08] put that in your head and it's it's

[01:09:10] always diminishing returns at that late

[01:09:12] it's never really that great but I do

[01:09:14] like the idea that this guy this doctor

[01:09:15] is like I can't even do this job if I

[01:09:17] don't have a person calling me the

[01:09:18] devil screaming in my face saying get

[01:09:21] these glute hands off of me calling me

[01:09:23] the personification of evil yeah like if

[01:09:25] I don't have that chorus of hatred that

[01:09:28] I can't focus in I can't dial in and it

[01:09:30] was like actually no it's better without

[01:09:32] all the yelling it's better not at 1 in

[01:09:33] the morning it's better I'd also like to

[01:09:35] ask which sense is it like removing

[01:09:37] because something tells me that

[01:09:39] blindfolding a surgeon the results the

[01:09:43] results would have a faster downturn

[01:09:46] than just having an unconscious patient

[01:09:50] but sure and is the idea that like by

[01:09:52] virtue of the patient being awake they're

[01:09:55] saying no not there it's the other leg

[01:09:58] like what is the thing they're helping

[01:09:59] with that the guy needs well so this is

[01:10:02] the next thing I wrote down here dr.

[01:10:04] Boosler elaborates that there was well

[01:10:07] this this sort of addresses your

[01:10:08] question I think the specific

[01:10:10] interaction question I don't really

[01:10:13] fully get the specific interaction other

[01:10:16] than possibly asking for the patient's

[01:10:19] consent at the beginning I don't really

[01:10:21] know how much useful feedback the

[01:10:24] patient is providing sure once you start

[01:10:26] cutting yeah but dr.

[01:10:28] Boosler elaborates that there was an

[01:10:30] erroneous view for hundreds of years

[01:10:32] that the awake patient stress and

[01:10:34] anguish during surgery is primarily

[01:10:36] what kept them alive surgeons felt more

[01:10:39] secure operating on conscious patients

[01:10:42] because their screams were a positive

[01:10:44] sign that they were still living oh yeah

[01:10:47] you don't want to like go through a

[01:10:48] four-hour procedure and find out that

[01:10:50] for three hours and 48 minutes of it that

[01:10:52] person's been dead yeah exactly that's

[01:10:55] one of the most nightmarish things in

[01:10:56] this episode is the idea that there were

[01:10:58] surgeons who felt like your screams kept

[01:11:01] you alive here's what I do if I had a

[01:11:04] 1800s medical consulting firm I would say

[01:11:07] listen I'm gonna save you some money here

[01:11:09] get rid of three of these glutes get one

[01:11:11] galoot with a mirror and have them hold

[01:11:13] it under the patient's nose if it stops

[01:11:14] fogging then they've died yeah but save

[01:11:17] yourself some money and save us all a

[01:11:18] headache of screaming people in here

[01:11:21] well there was also the religious aspect

[01:11:23] to all of this because according to

[01:11:24] Boosler quote religion was responsible

[01:11:27] for the false belief that surgical

[01:11:29] patients must be awake during their

[01:11:31] procedure because suffering was an Old

[01:11:33] Testament virtue the religious doctrine

[01:11:36] of the time taught that if God meant us

[01:11:38] to suffer when injured or operated on we

[01:11:41] must not interfere with his plan even if

[01:11:44] this led to excruciating and needless

[01:11:47] agony I don't love that I don't let me

[01:11:49] tracks but I don't love it yeah I don't

[01:11:50] love that either it's a very Catholic

[01:11:53] take on surgery yeah but you never once

[01:11:55] know why you get a new Pope though a new

[01:11:56] Pope comes in with new ideas and they'll

[01:11:57] be like you know what turns out this is

[01:11:59] fine everybody and everyone will just

[01:12:00] agree yeah I wonder who the first I

[01:12:02] wonder where that split was of the last

[01:12:05] Pope to have to receive a surgery

[01:12:07] without anesthetics and the first Pope

[01:12:09] to receive surgery with anesthetics and

[01:12:12] they're just comparing notes one night

[01:12:13] and the guy who had it with anesthetics

[01:12:15] is like I think I think this is the

[01:12:18] direction we're moving maybe no this is

[01:12:20] the same guy do you understand it's

[01:12:24] whoever had it without anesthetic that's

[01:12:26] true like well that was a nightmare

[01:12:28] probably go ahead and rewrite this part

[01:12:30] yeah and then you know whatever smoke

[01:12:32] comes out and I guess it's only when a

[01:12:33] new Pope the next day he's like I talked

[01:12:36] to God and you're not gonna believe what

[01:12:37] he said about ether yeah no yeah

[01:12:39] exactly dude he kicks that little doorway

[01:12:42] open to talk to the Silico whatever the

[01:12:44] hell's out there and he's just like hey

[01:12:45] listen ether's in baby it's in God's in

[01:12:48] on it and then Cosby is like really and

[01:12:50] it's like not you though not you though

[01:12:52] you piece of shit on top of all of that

[01:12:57] anesthesia I mentioned this briefly

[01:12:59] before but anesthesia was discovered

[01:13:01] before germ theory became understood as

[01:13:04] scientific fact so physicians and

[01:13:06] surgeons during the 1840s and 50s were

[01:13:09] still debating about whether the thorough

[01:13:12] washing of hands and tools prior to

[01:13:14] surgery was even necessary and since

[01:13:17] infections were so common the mortality

[01:13:20] rates for ether surgeries where people

[01:13:23] were under during the surgery weren't

[01:13:25] really all that terribly different from

[01:13:27] the surgeries where the patient was

[01:13:29] thrashing around on the table the whole

[01:13:30] time yeah so they kind of figured well

[01:13:33] if you have just about as good of a

[01:13:35] chance of surviving when you're awake as

[01:13:38] when you're out and there's benefits to

[01:13:40] the surgeon to you being awake I guess

[01:13:43] they figured we'll just keep you awake

[01:13:45] geez prestigious doctors and dentists

[01:13:47] would publish damning op-eds referring

[01:13:50] to ether as quote a satanic influence

[01:13:53] and decrying those doctors who supported

[01:13:56] its use by saying they had been quote

[01:13:58] seduced from the high professional path

[01:14:01] of duty into the quagmire of quackery by

[01:14:04] this willow the wisp oh my god I love

[01:14:07] every part of that sentence it's

[01:14:09] incredible and something you wouldn't

[01:14:10] see today yeah I also know that's great

[01:14:12] writing the thing you would see today

[01:14:14] though is the like let's reach out to a

[01:14:16] very vocal religious section of this

[01:14:18] community and they'll speak well beyond

[01:14:21] you know this article yeah if I can just

[01:14:24] throw God's name in it yeah and fuck

[01:14:26] dude how much money do you need doctors

[01:14:28] like you're already prominent doctors it

[01:14:30] says why do you gotta take if you can

[01:14:32] afford an ad then you're doing fine

[01:14:34] wait why what does the ad have to do with

[01:14:36] anesthesia because it's like you're

[01:14:38] already prominent like if you're

[01:14:39] anti-anesthesia you think you're gonna

[01:14:40] lose all your business to people who are

[01:14:42] using anesthesia just go fucking use

[01:14:44] anesthesia get with the times pal like

[01:14:46] yeah catch why do you have to pay all

[01:14:48] this money to take out an ad to be like

[01:14:50] you don't want to go over there come

[01:14:51] over to my pain factory instead yeah the

[01:14:54] third act story of that guy's life is

[01:14:56] like his wife and daughter going to the

[01:14:58] other dentist and it was like why won't

[01:14:59] you learn Harold nobody wants your pain

[01:15:01] dentistry and he's like it's the only

[01:15:03] way it's better it's the way I was

[01:15:05] raised yeah all that to say waking up

[01:15:08] during surgery is almost a blessing

[01:15:10] compared to how things used to be but

[01:15:13] that doesn't mean it's any less of a

[01:15:15] nightmare when it happens so in trying to

[01:15:18] find out more about how common

[01:15:19] accidental awareness or waking up during

[01:15:22] surgery is I found a pretty I would say

[01:15:25] understated quote that opens a study of

[01:15:28] accidental awareness published December

[01:15:30] 26 2017 by dr. Rob Clemens dr. Clemens

[01:15:34] says quote I'll do my best doctor voice

[01:15:38] unintentional or accidental return of

[01:15:41] consciousness during intended general

[01:15:43] anesthesia represents a failure to

[01:15:46] achieve the primary aim of anesthesia and

[01:15:49] is thus a serious complication of

[01:15:52] general anesthesia that is feared by

[01:15:54] patients and anesthetists alike so yeah

[01:15:57] no shit waking up during surgery it

[01:16:01] represents a failure to achieve the

[01:16:03] primary aim of being unconscious during

[01:16:06] surgery yep it's very it's an objective

[01:16:09] failure so finally we get to some

[01:16:11] numbers though this study and again

[01:16:13] this is just one study there's probably

[01:16:16] others but this is the one that I was

[01:16:18] using I could understand more of it than

[01:16:21] some of the papers I was reading this

[01:16:23] study reports the incidence of

[01:16:24] accidental awareness is get this one in

[01:16:29] 19,600 people so not entirely uncommon

[01:16:34] but not not as many as the numbers that

[01:16:36] we ran into would suggest yeah but I mean

[01:16:38] still one in 19,000 wake up well

[01:16:41] there's eight million people in New

[01:16:43] York yeah well so this is where the paper

[01:16:45] starts to break down a couple different

[01:16:47] things here it's and the paper is pretty

[01:16:49] dense obviously we'll link to it in the

[01:16:51] show notes like we always do so if

[01:16:52] you're a doctor or in medical school

[01:16:54] maybe you'll have a better read on this

[01:16:56] than I do but I don't think this one in

[01:16:59] 19,600 number represents people who wake

[01:17:03] up during surgery and feel pain I think

[01:17:07] it's specifically just about reported

[01:17:09] incidents of people who became aware for

[01:17:12] any period of time even if the patient

[01:17:15] wasn't aware of it after the fact so

[01:17:18] this number this one in 19,000 or one in

[01:17:21] almost 20,000 is just like the people who

[01:17:24] kind of come to and the doctor goes oh

[01:17:26] shit he's coming to boop boop put it

[01:17:28] back under the study goes on to say that

[01:17:31] several other studies have sought to

[01:17:33] detect awareness in real time and some of

[01:17:36] these have shown surprisingly high

[01:17:38] incidences of intraoperative responses

[01:17:41] to command up to 40% so up to 40% of

[01:17:46] patients in these studies do respond to

[01:17:49] stimulation oh when you say

[01:17:51] intraoperative it means like somebody

[01:17:53] like winced or something like when when

[01:17:55] you caught at something well they didn't

[01:17:58] specify in each of these studies what

[01:18:00] the stimulation was but yes some up to

[01:18:03] 40% of patients responded in some way to

[01:18:07] some kind of stimulation during surgery

[01:18:09] yeah the surgical aspect not the just

[01:18:12] yeah so thankfully in these studies

[01:18:15] almost none of the responsive patients

[01:18:17] had any post-operative recall of

[01:18:20] intraoperative events God how do you get

[01:18:23] that information they have to be like

[01:18:24] hey question for you you notice anything

[01:18:26] weird during that and they're like no why

[01:18:29] no reason no reason at all just normal

[01:18:32] questions we ask everybody we just say

[01:18:35] the doctors watching a video of them

[01:18:37] waking up and screaming and ripping the

[01:18:40] things out I think I was like no I

[01:18:43] don't remember anything so the reason

[01:18:46] that even people who were responsive

[01:18:48] during surgery tend to not have any

[01:18:50] recall of it is as many people who have

[01:18:52] gone under during surgery know most

[01:18:55] anesthetic agents are potent amnesiacs

[01:18:58] even when present in small doses the

[01:19:01] study says that it is also possible that

[01:19:04] responsiveness represents an

[01:19:06] intermediate state termed this

[01:19:09] anesthesia DYS anesthesia to date no

[01:19:14] studies have indicated any strong

[01:19:16] evidence that awareness without recall

[01:19:19] has important psychological or other

[01:19:21] consequences so no evidence that if you

[01:19:24] rouse during surgery but don't remember

[01:19:26] it that will impact your life in any way

[01:19:28] unless you're Barney Hill and you go to

[01:19:31] a hypnotherapist who makes you think

[01:19:33] you're abducted by aliens so it is clear

[01:19:37] however this study says that oh here's a

[01:19:40] fact you don't have to be a brain

[01:19:42] surgeon to understand awareness with

[01:19:45] recall is associated with adverse

[01:19:48] consequences such as post-operative

[01:19:51] dissatisfaction oh yeah oh yeah that's a

[01:19:54] one-star review for me if I wake up

[01:19:56] during surgery I'll be pretty

[01:19:57] dissatisfied yeah so I'm glad we've had

[01:20:01] doctors and scientists and academics

[01:20:04] fully come to the scientific conclusion

[01:20:07] that if you remember waking up during

[01:20:09] surgery there will be adverse

[01:20:12] consequences yeah but I do think we do

[01:20:14] need to start having doctors believe

[01:20:16] people though I don't like that story in

[01:20:17] the beginning where it was like now you

[01:20:19] didn't you didn't wake up you big idiot

[01:20:20] like that's that should not be the

[01:20:22] response no one should be but if in

[01:20:24] look and I get it there's insurances

[01:20:25] there's bosses whatever yeah I think you

[01:20:27] can still be like oh we didn't notice

[01:20:29] but not necessarily you know sleep you

[01:20:32] know there's a way to like probably

[01:20:33] thoughtfully and correctly responding

[01:20:35] to that without gaslighting people yes

[01:20:38] and the more that we've studied this I

[01:20:41] mean I do think for a lot of those early

[01:20:43] years you know once doctors became

[01:20:46] enthusiastic about using anesthesia and

[01:20:49] putting people under there was a long

[01:20:51] process of figuring out the best way to

[01:20:54] do it and I think there was a belief that

[01:20:56] you know once you are out you are out

[01:20:58] and then you know the more and sweet

[01:21:00] collected the more facts we've collected

[01:21:02] and the more science we've done around

[01:21:04] anesthesia and putting people under for

[01:21:07] surgery the more we find out like oh

[01:21:09] there's different phases of this or like

[01:21:11] the paper that suggested there's maybe

[01:21:13] this intermediate state this anesthesia

[01:21:16] where you're responsive but you're not

[01:21:18] really awake like those gray areas

[01:21:20] become a little clearer and we're moving

[01:21:22] towards doctors believing people more

[01:21:25] for sure I only know one anesthesiologist

[01:21:27] who definitely would not come on this

[01:21:29] show because I think you're not allowed

[01:21:30] to talk about the type of shit for their

[01:21:32] jobs no but I do know that there is

[01:21:34] equations if you will and stuff that

[01:21:37] goes into like there's a lot of factors

[01:21:39] which maybe weren't factors then which

[01:21:42] is like the factor of like your body

[01:21:43] weight your whatever your susceptibility

[01:21:45] to this how much drug and alcohol you

[01:21:47] might use as a person recreationally

[01:21:49] that they have to take into account

[01:21:51] when they're figuring out the doses and

[01:21:53] for how long a person needs to be out if

[01:21:55] it's a 12-hour surgery if it's a one-hour

[01:21:57] surgery yeah like you're not gonna give

[01:21:58] someone a 12-hour surgery worth of like

[01:22:00] Rip Van Weekel sauce right if it's a 20

[01:22:02] minute procedure or something so I do

[01:22:04] like I think all of that but like honing

[01:22:07] of that material and taking into

[01:22:08] account that not everyone's created

[01:22:10] equally in the medical field right

[01:22:13] probably wasn't around in the early days

[01:22:15] of spraying with a can of ether or

[01:22:18] whatever yeah from the mechanic shop

[01:22:20] well yeah we were we were two steps

[01:22:22] removed from well we can hit them over

[01:22:24] the head with a rock or you know or give

[01:22:28] them this ether yeah the pet gas

[01:22:31] although none of it seems to come close

[01:22:32] to that Chinese dudes put you to sleep

[01:22:34] for a month stuff though so yeah he had

[01:22:36] it figured out shouldn't have tried to

[01:22:38] split open the Emperor's head I guess

[01:22:40] yeah speaking of our heads and you

[01:22:41] mentioned this earlier that the burning

[01:22:43] smell of cauterized skin or whatever

[01:22:45] yeah like the one of the listeners

[01:22:47] mentioned earlier about the

[01:22:48] cauterized skin but I met a girl once

[01:22:50] who I talked to for a while let me

[01:22:53] finish this okay I talked to her for a

[01:22:55] while she was a medical student and she

[01:22:58] described she had a bunch of I'm not

[01:23:00] gonna get into her whole backstory but

[01:23:02] she was in the medical field it wasn't

[01:23:03] just a person who was like a hobbyist

[01:23:05] where she describes the smell of a skull

[01:23:08] if you drill into a skull like if you're

[01:23:11] cutting into a skull like either for

[01:23:13] surgery for like brain surgery or

[01:23:14] probably realistically like

[01:23:16] post-mortem stuff yeah that she

[01:23:18] describes it as smelling like Cool

[01:23:19] Ranch Doritos and that's kind of nice

[01:23:22] up cool ranch Doritos for but she also

[01:23:23] finds it weirdly pleasant and I was like

[01:23:25] did you notice that everyone else at

[01:23:27] this party is walking further and

[01:23:29] further away from us having this

[01:23:30] conversation I'm in it so I'm I have to

[01:23:33] stay but like yeah this is getting so

[01:23:35] crazy I was working on a project at the

[01:23:37] time that I needed to know a little bit

[01:23:39] more about stuff like that as you leave

[01:23:41] the host is just glaring at you and

[01:23:43] throwing out giant bags of Cool Ranch

[01:23:45] Doritos oh my god I bought all these

[01:23:47] Doritos and now no one will eat them

[01:23:49] because of this you two idiots talking

[01:23:51] about your disgusting that their skull

[01:23:53] dust yeah skull dusted Doritos I just

[01:23:56] found that interesting is you know if

[01:23:57] we're talking about the smells of the

[01:23:59] medical community that's one that she

[01:24:01] says is the case people from the medical

[01:24:03] community who listen to this show hit us

[01:24:05] up and let us know the craziest things

[01:24:07] you've ever smelt in the operating room

[01:24:09] and the more pleasant the better I want

[01:24:11] to find out more Cool Ranch Doritos and

[01:24:13] less bile type of things yeah yeah more

[01:24:15] pleasant surprises in the operating room

[01:24:17] please that would be a nice name for a

[01:24:19] hospital right pleasant surprises

[01:24:21] general take out surprises and I might

[01:24:25] show up all right so I wanted to wrap up

[01:24:29] this episode by talking about some let's

[01:24:32] call it reports of post-operative

[01:24:34] dissatisfaction that I found out there

[01:24:37] on the internet the first and worst

[01:24:40] comes from our great neighbors to the

[01:24:43] North Canada we've done some Canada

[01:24:47] slander on this show yeah we've discussed

[01:24:49] their trash islands yeah we've discussed

[01:24:51] they're very bad therapists yeah I don't

[01:24:54] want to talk too much shit on their

[01:24:55] health care system because it is probably

[01:24:57] better sure better yeah and what we have

[01:25:00] that said one mrs. Donna Penner had a

[01:25:04] real bad time at the hospital in 2008

[01:25:08] and she wrote about it in her own words

[01:25:10] for the BBC so I'm gonna read this is

[01:25:13] kind of long but it's worth reading you

[01:25:16] know outside of Francis bake not

[01:25:18] Francis bacon Francis bacon interesting

[01:25:21] the woman who wrote about her experiences

[01:25:23] in the operating to yes it's funny

[01:25:25] because I'll hold five she said I don't

[01:25:27] know why but now would you bring up

[01:25:29] Francis I'm realizing right at this

[01:25:31] moment that I read or listened to that

[01:25:34] entire piece you you read about her as

[01:25:37] like in a Civil War style outdoor

[01:25:40] triage tent I don't I don't think that

[01:25:43] was the case now that I'm thinking about

[01:25:44] it but that a whole time I just saw her

[01:25:46] under like a triage tent from glory yeah

[01:25:49] but I don't think that was the case no I

[01:25:52] probably wasn't it probably wasn't super

[01:25:55] comfortable wherever she was but it is

[01:25:57] interesting I also when I read about

[01:25:59] pre-anesthetic surgeries I think about

[01:26:02] the Civil War even though if ether was

[01:26:05] invented in 1846 or what if it started

[01:26:08] to be used in 1846 in Boston in Boston

[01:26:11] maybe the Union Army had some for their

[01:26:13] medical staff yeah it would have been

[01:26:14] around but yeah I feel like generally

[01:26:16] Civil War surgeries are you know kind of

[01:26:18] the go-to for always depicted as like

[01:26:21] bites on on this thing and drink a bunch

[01:26:23] of whiskey yeah actually isn't I'm

[01:26:26] surprised I didn't stumble across this

[01:26:27] but bite the bullet it's probably when

[01:26:30] you say someone has to bite the bullet

[01:26:31] that's probably from the Civil War

[01:26:34] surgery era right like yeah something

[01:26:36] where it's like bites out on this yeah

[01:26:38] it would suck too if you bit the bullet

[01:26:40] and then you you know got through the

[01:26:42] surgery Civil War surgery bit the bullet

[01:26:44] this bullet helped but it's a metal

[01:26:47] bullet it broke my tooth then you have

[01:26:49] to go get your tooth fixed at the

[01:26:51] dentist who uses ether and you're like

[01:26:53] what the fuck was this a couple days

[01:26:55] ago I have my leg taken off and I felt

[01:26:57] all of it I'm just having my tooth fixed

[01:26:59] here and I this is a fucking vacation

[01:27:01] for me that would be I ride all the

[01:27:03] dentist and steal the ether no I would I

[01:27:05] would give a five-star review to the

[01:27:07] dentist and I'd go back I'd use that

[01:27:09] bullet to kill the guy who operated on my

[01:27:10] leg yeah okay before we get into the next

[01:27:14] story just a quick heads up that again

[01:27:17] this is going to be pretty stomach

[01:27:19] churning even for hardened people like

[01:27:22] Ed and I so I would just recommend that

[01:27:25] you don't let a kid listen to this and

[01:27:27] if you are at all put off by the idea of

[01:27:31] waking up during surgery just skip a

[01:27:34] couple of minutes yeah please definitely

[01:27:36] do you have been warned graphic story

[01:27:39] incoming in 3 2 1 alright so this is

[01:27:42] mrs. Penner's trip to the hospital in

[01:27:45] 2008 I was booked for an exploratory

[01:27:47] laparoscopy at a hospital in my home

[01:27:50] province of Manitoba in Canada now I

[01:27:52] know I just started but this I just

[01:27:54] want to pause real quick and say this is

[01:27:56] the shit that's so scary to me it's not

[01:27:58] like she was going in for a 10-hour

[01:28:00] brain surgery she was going in for like

[01:28:03] a pretty basic procedure and you know a

[01:28:05] laparoscopy is I'm pretty sure that's

[01:28:07] outpatient so she says I was 44 and I

[01:28:10] had been experiencing heavy bleeding

[01:28:12] during my periods I'd had a general

[01:28:14] anesthetic before and I knew I was

[01:28:16] supposed to have one for this procedure

[01:28:18] I'd never had a problem with them but

[01:28:20] when we first got to the hospital I

[01:28:21] found myself feeling quite anxious

[01:28:23] during a laparoscopy the surgeon makes

[01:28:25] incisions into your abdomen through

[01:28:27] which they will push instruments so they

[01:28:29] can take a look around sounds quaint

[01:28:31] you have three or four small incisions

[01:28:33] instead of one big one the operation

[01:28:36] started off well they moved me onto the

[01:28:39] operating table and started to do all

[01:28:41] the normal things that they do hooking

[01:28:43] me up to all the monitors and prepping

[01:28:45] me the anesthesiologist gave me

[01:28:47] something in an intravenous drip and

[01:28:49] then he put a mask on my face and said

[01:28:51] take a deep breath so I did and drifted

[01:28:53] off to sleep like I was supposed to when

[01:28:56] I woke up I could still hear the sounds

[01:28:58] in the operating room I could hear the

[01:29:00] staff banging and clanging all right

[01:29:03] working out yeah and the machines going

[01:29:07] the monitors and that kind of thing I

[01:29:09] thought oh good it's over it's done I

[01:29:12] was lying there feeling a little

[01:29:14] medicated but at the same time I was so

[01:29:16] alert and enjoying that lazy feeling of

[01:29:18] waking up and feeling completely

[01:29:20] relaxed that changed a few seconds later

[01:29:23] when I heard the surgeon speak they were

[01:29:25] moving around and doing their things and

[01:29:27] then all of a sudden I heard him say

[01:29:29] scalpel please oh my god I just froze I

[01:29:33] thought what did I just hear there was

[01:29:36] nothing I could do I had been given a

[01:29:38] paralytic which is a common thing they

[01:29:40] do when working on the abdomen because it

[01:29:42] relaxes the abdominal muscles so they

[01:29:44] don't resist as much when you're cutting

[01:29:46] through them unfortunately the general

[01:29:49] anesthetic hadn't worked but the

[01:29:51] paralytic had I panicked I thought this

[01:29:54] cannot be happening so I waited for a

[01:29:57] few seconds but then I felt him make the

[01:29:59] first incision I don't have words to

[01:30:02] describe the pain it was horrific I

[01:30:04] could not open my eyes the first thing I

[01:30:07] tried to do was sit up but I couldn't

[01:30:09] move it felt like someone was sitting on

[01:30:11] me weighing me down I wanted to say

[01:30:14] something I wanted to move but I

[01:30:16] couldn't I was so paralyzed I couldn't

[01:30:18] even make the tears to cry at that

[01:30:21] point I could hear my heart rate on the

[01:30:23] monitor it kept going up higher and

[01:30:25] higher I was in a state of sheer terror

[01:30:28] I could hear them working on me I could

[01:30:30] hear them talking I felt the surgeon

[01:30:32] make those incisions and push those

[01:30:33] instruments through my abdomen I felt

[01:30:36] him moving my organs around as he

[01:30:38] explored I heard him say things like

[01:30:40] look at her appendix it's really nice

[01:30:42] and pink colon looks good ovary looks

[01:30:45] good I managed to twitch my foot three

[01:30:48] times to show I was awake but each time

[01:30:50] someone put their hand on it to still it

[01:30:52] without verbally acknowledging I had

[01:30:54] moved the operation lasted for about an

[01:30:57] hour and a half to top it all off

[01:31:00] because I was paralyzed they had

[01:31:02] intubated me put me on a breathing

[01:31:04] machine and set the ventilator to

[01:31:06] breathe seven times a minute even though

[01:31:09] my heart rate was up at 148 beats per

[01:31:12] minute that's all I got seven breaths

[01:31:14] a minute I was suffocating it felt as

[01:31:17] though my lungs were on fire there was a

[01:31:20] point when I thought they had finished

[01:31:21] operating and they were starting to do

[01:31:23] their final things that's when I noticed

[01:31:25] I was able to move my tongue I realized

[01:31:28] that the paralytic was wearing off I

[01:31:30] thought I'm gonna play with the

[01:31:31] breathing tube still in my throat so I

[01:31:33] started wiggling it with my tongue to

[01:31:35] get their attention and it worked I did

[01:31:37] catch the attention of the

[01:31:38] anesthesiologist but I guess he must

[01:31:40] have thought I was coming out of the

[01:31:41] paralytic more than I was because he

[01:31:43] took the tube and pulled it out of my

[01:31:45] throat meaning she now can't breathe I

[01:31:49] lay there thinking now I'm really in

[01:31:51] trouble I'd already said mental

[01:31:53] goodbyes to my family because I didn't

[01:31:55] think I was gonna pull through and now I

[01:31:57] couldn't breathe I could hear the nurse

[01:31:59] yelling at me she was on one side saying

[01:32:01] breathe Donna breathe but there was

[01:32:03] nothing I could do as she was

[01:32:04] continuously telling me to breathe the

[01:32:06] most amazing thing happened I had an

[01:32:09] out-of-body experience and left my body

[01:32:11] so not to cut Donna off but near-death

[01:32:14] experiences are a different episode and

[01:32:17] hers also isn't very good so I'm just

[01:32:19] gonna jump ahead a little here as

[01:32:21] quickly as I went there I was back in

[01:32:24] the time it takes to snap your fingers I

[01:32:26] was back in my body in the operating

[01:32:27] room again I could still hear them

[01:32:29] working on me and the nurse is yelling

[01:32:31] breathe Donna all of a sudden the

[01:32:32] anesthesiologist said bagger they put a

[01:32:35] mask on my face and used a manual

[01:32:37] resuscitator to force air into my lungs

[01:32:39] as soon as they did the burning

[01:32:41] sensation I had in my lungs left it was a

[01:32:43] huge relief I started to breathe again at

[01:32:46] that point the anesthesiologist gave me

[01:32:48] something to counteract the paralytic

[01:32:49] and it didn't take long before I was

[01:32:51] able to start talking oh I'm disgusted

[01:32:54] and horrified like I genuinely hated

[01:32:56] every minute of that story it's getting

[01:32:59] me on the most like visceral level yeah

[01:33:02] later she says as I recovered from the

[01:33:04] ordeal the surgeon came into my room

[01:33:06] grabbed my hand with both of his and

[01:33:08] said I understand there were some

[01:33:10] problems mrs. Penner to which she

[01:33:13] probably said yes I have some post

[01:33:15] operation dissatisfaction well it's

[01:33:17] interesting is if in America she's like

[01:33:19] yeah I'm gonna own this fucking hospital

[01:33:21] but up there it's probably like no big

[01:33:22] deal I don't know she she so that there

[01:33:25] was more in the article here that it was

[01:33:27] already a long read so I won't do all of

[01:33:29] it but she had a good heart-to-heart

[01:33:30] with the doctor he did believe her she

[01:33:33] did pursue legal action against the

[01:33:34] hospital and all the article says is

[01:33:36] that it was settled out of court of

[01:33:38] course it was yeah yeah I assume she

[01:33:39] did get some money for it but I'm not

[01:33:41] saying money makes things better by any

[01:33:43] means I'm just saying that like no the

[01:33:45] reason why maybe a Canadian doctor might

[01:33:48] go let's talk about this it sounds like

[01:33:51] something horrible happened versus an

[01:33:52] American doctor who's so afraid of our

[01:33:55] obsession with litigation I can see an

[01:33:58] American doctor be like no you were

[01:33:59] actually the doctor that day fuck off

[01:34:01] yeah and in Canada you might actually

[01:34:03] get a little further of a conversation

[01:34:05] without tremendous knee-jerk reaction

[01:34:07] fear of like I'm gonna lose my medical

[01:34:09] license well not only lose your medical

[01:34:11] license but I feel like the way that

[01:34:13] medical lawsuits go sometimes it's our

[01:34:16] system is so shaky I feel like one big

[01:34:18] lawsuit like half the hospitals in the

[01:34:21] country will end up going under yeah

[01:34:22] well I mean there's plenty of there's

[01:34:24] plenty every year but anyway and I now

[01:34:27] are both just like like I feel gross I

[01:34:29] don't I don't love it I don't love it I

[01:34:31] feel gross having read that story but

[01:34:33] that's the full nightmare version of the

[01:34:36] way that this stuff happens now one of

[01:34:38] the things that was reassuring about that

[01:34:40] study that I read is that you know this

[01:34:44] sort of ordeal I mean it should never

[01:34:46] happen but it does seem that when it does

[01:34:48] it's it is very rare and in this case

[01:34:51] even more rare because usually the

[01:34:54] paralytical wear off but the anesthesia

[01:34:57] is still working this was a really

[01:34:59] horrific thing where the paralytic is

[01:35:02] working and the anesthesia isn't which

[01:35:04] is just no it's the worst possible

[01:35:07] scenario yeah it's the thing that I

[01:35:09] talked about during alien abduction

[01:35:10] where I'm like this is my I don't want

[01:35:12] this yeah yeah so to wrap up I did find a

[01:35:20] couple other stories on reddit it seems

[01:35:23] like every couple years is the post

[01:35:25] usually I'm like r slash ask reddit

[01:35:27] asking if anyone has ever woken up

[01:35:29] during surgery like this one thread I

[01:35:32] found titled in all caps serious people

[01:35:35] who have woken up during surgery what

[01:35:37] was it like most of these stories aren't

[01:35:40] as harrowing as Donna's but it is

[01:35:42] unsettling how many of them there seem

[01:35:44] to be so I just wanted to share a few

[01:35:46] here from caboose 88 says I woke up while

[01:35:50] they were putting a metal plate in my

[01:35:52] arm they used a block which basically

[01:35:54] made my entire arm from shoulder to hand

[01:35:57] numb when I woke up I could remember

[01:36:00] hearing a drill and a slight pressure in

[01:36:02] the arm they were working on I just said

[01:36:04] this is awesome followed shortly by

[01:36:07] someone saying oops and I quickly went

[01:36:10] back to sleep so that's that's more

[01:36:12] that's the aperitif here that this is

[01:36:14] more this is a palate cleanser well I

[01:36:16] don't know if I believe the oops part

[01:36:18] true because it's not like someone said

[01:36:19] oops then they hit a button that put you

[01:36:21] immediately back to sleep I think that

[01:36:22] was maybe like they're writing that for

[01:36:24] the lulz or something maybe oh but isn't

[01:36:26] that kind of how it works if they sense

[01:36:27] that you're waking up that they they

[01:36:29] hit you a little harder with the juice I

[01:36:31] have no idea I have no idea if it's a

[01:36:33] button if it's a you know I mean like

[01:36:35] yeah did he say he like locked eyes with

[01:36:37] somebody no no no yeah so I don't trust

[01:36:39] the soup stock but and that's a question

[01:36:41] is so basically though they felt no pain

[01:36:43] they were just like oh shit but I'm

[01:36:45] awake and yeah which is most of these

[01:36:47] reddit stories that I found just what

[01:36:49] you want yes I'm pivoting to these

[01:36:51] because we're getting near the end of

[01:36:52] the episode and I just can't bring

[01:36:54] myself to end on that story because it's

[01:36:57] yeah I know that story I hate it I hate

[01:36:59] it so much that poor woman I fucking

[01:37:01] hate it this one's kind of hilarious I

[01:37:03] woke up partway through having all four

[01:37:05] wisdom teeth removed the assistant had

[01:37:07] wrapped her arms around my forehead the

[01:37:10] dentist had his knee on my sternum and

[01:37:14] was yanking two-handed on the largest

[01:37:17] pliers I've ever seen that somehow fit

[01:37:19] into my mouth he stopped nodded to the

[01:37:22] anesthesiologist and then thankfully I

[01:37:24] didn't remember anything else oh my god

[01:37:26] but what the dentist's knee on your

[01:37:30] sternum is so fucking hardcore this is

[01:37:33] some WC field shit like why this is what

[01:37:36] I'm talking about man like somebody

[01:37:38] moved you that day it's like that's how

[01:37:40] out you are you know yeah like you're so

[01:37:42] out people using you as a fucking

[01:37:43] trampoline you'd have no idea like you

[01:37:46] wake up and four doctors are jumping on

[01:37:49] your chest to try to break through your

[01:37:51] sternum yeah I don't know why they would

[01:37:53] need to break through your I guess it's

[01:37:54] a doctor's this time not dentist yeah and

[01:37:56] then this last one from user Allison

[01:38:00] underscore Wonderland starts off kind of

[01:38:03] funny she says I woke up during foot

[01:38:05] surgery I had conscious sedation and

[01:38:07] local anesthesia in my foot I remember

[01:38:10] feeling super chilled out I felt like me

[01:38:12] the surgeon and all the other people in

[01:38:14] there were buddies they were sawing off

[01:38:18] a part of a bone and I remember thinking

[01:38:20] it felt kind of good like a foot massage

[01:38:22] I asked the surgeons if I could see what

[01:38:25] they were doing and they said something

[01:38:26] like no go back to sleep I think I asked

[01:38:29] this question more than once during the

[01:38:31] surgery I remember waking up right after

[01:38:34] the surgery as they were preparing to

[01:38:35] transfer me to the recovery room the

[01:38:38] surgeon said something like haul your

[01:38:40] ass onto this stretcher not gonna lie it

[01:38:42] was pretty awesome but then she follows

[01:38:45] up with this people didn't comment as

[01:38:48] much on the anesthesiologist also kissed

[01:38:51] me on the forehead as I was leaving the

[01:38:53] operating room that's not definitely not

[01:38:56] in the rule books right I told my

[01:38:58] parents in the car ride home about it

[01:39:00] and about how it was cool that he was so

[01:39:02] friendly they were like that's a little

[01:39:05] weird and I thought about it and was

[01:39:07] like hmm that actually is pretty weird I

[01:39:10] guess I didn't register it while I was

[01:39:12] drugged up yeah I mean that's bananas

[01:39:15] that's definitely not okay and or like

[01:39:18] every operation ends so we just leans in

[01:39:21] just kisses people like goodbye sweet

[01:39:23] angel thank you for being such a little

[01:39:25] treat during this like what yeah I can't

[01:39:28] think of an age where that would be

[01:39:30] appropriate like I was almost gonna say

[01:39:33] like well I guess if you were like a

[01:39:34] scared little kid but no that's no weird

[01:39:37] percent still if anything that's worse

[01:39:38] yeah it's like we have like lollipops

[01:39:41] and stuff to do that for you yeah you

[01:39:43] don't need to kiss the forehead of your

[01:39:45] patient unless the patient is your child

[01:39:47] true or I mean and it's just so bad it

[01:39:50] wasn't even like a nurse it's the

[01:39:51] person responsible for putting you under

[01:39:54] yeah that's that's this very telling

[01:39:56] don't love that oh it's not like the

[01:39:58] doctor yeah cuz it's like a guy or lady

[01:40:00] off to the side who's just it's just

[01:40:03] somebody somebody who's responsible for

[01:40:05] being like how's it going over there

[01:40:06] Johnson is like ah good it's going great

[01:40:08] like they're definitely not gonna

[01:40:09] remember me kissing them yeah that's how

[01:40:12] good I am at my job they won't remember

[01:40:14] me kissing them I don't love it that

[01:40:15] person's in charge of it yeah report

[01:40:17] this guy Jesus yeah that'll be another

[01:40:19] episode just creepy doctors I don't

[01:40:22] think we need to do that episode that's

[01:40:23] a loaded episode let's not maybe maybe

[01:40:25] in season 5 yeah well that brings us to

[01:40:28] the end of this particularly egregious

[01:40:31] nightmare and where do you put waking up

[01:40:35] during surgery on the fear tier number

[01:40:37] one number fucking one nice I have been

[01:40:39] blessed in this world with very few

[01:40:42] things I have been I have been blessed

[01:40:45] I have been blessed in this world with

[01:40:47] the body slash put it off till later

[01:40:51] worrying attitude on most things medical

[01:40:54] so I've been rewarded for bad behavior

[01:40:57] of putting off pretty much anything

[01:40:58] medical because I've been blessed with

[01:41:00] not really having that many issues same

[01:41:02] and so I've never had to go under surgery

[01:41:05] other than wisdom teeth yeah but I

[01:41:07] likely will and so by virtue of it's

[01:41:11] definitely down the road and I know

[01:41:14] doctors not necessarily anesthesiologist

[01:41:17] but like they're idiots just like us who

[01:41:19] just studied a lot at one thing and so I

[01:41:22] never make a doctor's appointment at

[01:41:24] seven in the morning yeah is there

[01:41:25] anything like me they're not awake

[01:41:27] they're not gonna do their best work you

[01:41:28] know they were hungover from the night

[01:41:29] before yeah so since they're human I'm

[01:41:32] human right there is a recipe for

[01:41:34] disaster yeah it's just gosh it's just so

[01:41:37] a lot of times with the fear tier it's

[01:41:39] like I'm not afraid of it I'll avoid it

[01:41:42] but it kind of like surgery might be

[01:41:44] unavoidable for your whole life yeah so

[01:41:46] the fact that we're landing with these

[01:41:47] crazy small numbers like 13,900 people

[01:41:50] like holy shit man yeah that's and the

[01:41:53] thing is is it's weird because I'm not

[01:41:55] afraid of waking up in surgery if it's

[01:41:57] like oh did you hear that drill that's

[01:41:58] funny and cool I'm afraid of

[01:42:00] specifically the like still paralyzed

[01:42:02] feel everything one yeah well it's I

[01:42:04] think it's so I also would put this at

[01:42:06] number one on the fear tier for me so

[01:42:08] let's let's play a little sound effect

[01:42:10] here a little cheer fireworks or

[01:42:12] something in a way it's kind of like

[01:42:21] airline disasters where you really

[01:42:23] can't avoid most people can't avoid

[01:42:25] having to get on a plane for something

[01:42:27] at some point in their life same with

[01:42:29] surgery most people I would say are

[01:42:32] probably gonna have to get put under

[01:42:33] for something but once that happens you

[01:42:37] have absolutely no control over whether

[01:42:40] or not the bad part happens and that's

[01:42:42] the thing that drives me crazy about it

[01:42:44] is that loss of control to something so

[01:42:47] horrible and there's nothing you can do

[01:42:49] to prepare for it better you can't train

[01:42:52] for it you can't study your way out of

[01:42:54] it you either wake up during surgery or

[01:42:57] you don't and most people luckily don't

[01:43:00] but if you do you just suffer you just

[01:43:04] well the thing is like you see it's

[01:43:05] either uncomfortable and unusual which

[01:43:08] is the like I felt a little stiffness no

[01:43:10] different than getting like dental work

[01:43:12] when you're not right you know when

[01:43:13] you're localized feeling all the

[01:43:15] pressure of it but you're not really

[01:43:16] feeling pain if I felt pressure and no

[01:43:18] pain I can live with waking up in that

[01:43:20] alien abduction basically but the

[01:43:23] feeling the pain mixed with if I get the

[01:43:25] feeling the pain aspects bad enough but

[01:43:27] then you throw in the like I'm can't

[01:43:29] move thing and that's what I actually

[01:43:31] had a question earlier that I know you

[01:43:32] don't have the answer to but I'll ask it

[01:43:34] now which is in the woman's story that we

[01:43:37] both recoiled and hated because of just

[01:43:40] we're not piece of shit people and so we

[01:43:42] did feel empathy towards that person her

[01:43:44] heart rate rose which on my mind I'm

[01:43:46] like okay that should be a red flag in

[01:43:49] the operating room which makes me wonder

[01:43:51] does the heart react the way the

[01:43:53] hearts going to react to trauma all the

[01:43:55] time is that actually not an unusual

[01:43:57] sight for a doctor to see which is like

[01:43:59] the heart would be elevator because

[01:44:00] we're cutting into the body and all

[01:44:02] these like alarms are going off in a

[01:44:03] body and then secondly her foot moved

[01:44:06] and then a nurse or a doctor an

[01:44:08] assistant just kind of move you know put

[01:44:10] their hand on it yeah and I also wonder

[01:44:12] is that a thing that's common in an

[01:44:14] operating room where you would have a

[01:44:15] limb move or a thing twitch because you

[01:44:17] touched a nerve or whatever yeah so

[01:44:19] neither one of those might have truly

[01:44:21] been a sign until the tube in her mouth

[01:44:24] starts moving because it's like yeah your

[01:44:26] jaw wouldn't be moving right now your

[01:44:28] tongue wouldn't be moving right now yeah

[01:44:29] I don't have the specific answer to that

[01:44:31] question I do think that study that

[01:44:33] basically was saying you know up to 40

[01:44:36] percent of people do have reactions in

[01:44:39] surgery but they don't remember it I

[01:44:41] would imagine that some of the reason

[01:44:44] they're doing that study is to try to

[01:44:45] determine specifically what things might

[01:44:49] indicate a person is conscious versus

[01:44:51] just having a physical reaction yeah I

[01:44:54] mean yeah to me heart rate seems like it

[01:44:56] would be pretty indicative of like

[01:44:57] something's wrong but maybe not I mean

[01:45:00] I'll just say this I'm no doctor so yeah

[01:45:03] I don't know nobody would have questioned

[01:45:05] nobody would have questioned that you

[01:45:06] were you don't present yourself as a

[01:45:08] doctor it's weird that you wear a lab

[01:45:10] coat and stethoscope every day so I

[01:45:13] guess in that way you present yourself

[01:45:14] but they don't start talking to you for

[01:45:15] like one minute and you're like oh this

[01:45:16] is a guy who thinks it's Halloween I

[01:45:18] call myself the fear doctor oh my gosh

[01:45:21] the doctor of fear doctor of fear all

[01:45:23] right well we have a new highest fear

[01:45:25] tier we've definitely it's the fucking

[01:45:28] worst man I don't know how we even take

[01:45:30] that away unless we talk specifically

[01:45:32] about a serial killer who only kills

[01:45:34] people named Ed and Chris I don't know

[01:45:36] how we top this man it's just the worst

[01:45:39] it's just the fucking worst so we're

[01:45:41] starting off season 3 with a high bar a

[01:45:43] new bar has been set only downhill from

[01:45:46] here people there's nothing left to

[01:45:50] cover no where there is going to be a

[01:45:53] multitude of bizarre funny scary wild

[01:45:57] fears this season so stay tuned until we

[01:46:01] see you again I'm Chris Kolari and I'm

[01:46:04] Ed vocola and this is scared all the

[01:46:06] time we'll see you next time bye

[01:46:09] scared all the time is co-produced by

[01:46:11] Chris Kolari and Ed vocola written by

[01:46:13] Chris Kolari edited by Ed vocola

[01:46:16] additional support and keeper of sanity

[01:46:18] is Tess Feifel our theme song is the

[01:46:20] track scared by perpetual stew and mr.

[01:46:23] disclaimer is and just a reminder you

[01:46:26] can now support the podcast on supercast

[01:46:28] and get all kinds of cool shit in return

[01:46:30] depending on the tier you choose we'll

[01:46:31] be offering everything from ad free

[01:46:33] episodes to producer credits exclusive

[01:46:35] access and exclusive merch so go sign up

[01:46:37] for a supercast and scared all the time

[01:46:39] podcast.com don't worry full steady

[01:46:42] caps welcome no part of this show can be

[01:46:44] reproduced anywhere without permission

[01:46:46] copyright astonishing legends

[01:46:47] productions night we are in this

[01:46:49] together together together