The Loch Ness Monster

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: The Stunishing Legends Network.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: This claimer, this episode includes the usual amount of adult language and graphic discussions

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you've come to expect around here, but in the event it becomes an unusual amount, expecting

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: another call from me.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to Scared All The Time, I'm Chris Colari, and I'm Edvecola.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: At this week we are wrapping up Season 3 with the introduction of a brand new mini series

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that we're going to do on this show called Fear of the Unknown.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, forgot it's got a name.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me explain.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: When we started this podcast, we wanted to establish our voice and do something new that

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: no one else had tried yet.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Hence, the show you all know and love America's number one Fear of the Base podcast.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But now we're 30 episodes into the show, and about 10 months into this journey, we decided

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: let's widen the lens to take a look, maybe once or twice a season, at some things

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that are scary, but in that more fascinating and intriguing kind of way.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: This series will include different urban legends, ghosts, monsters, aliens, cryptids, and

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: mysteries that you may have heard covered elsewhere, astonishing legends, but never with

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that special scared all the time twist, which is to say, slightly skeptical, gently mocking,

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_02]: but deeply in love.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no better way to begin this series than by turning our gaze to the placid shores

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: of one of the most beautiful places on Earth, Loch Ness.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Ever since I was a kid at a frustrated librarian said, I don't know, maybe try this and

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: pointed me towards a book on the Loch Ness Monster when I ran out of dinosaur books to

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: read, I've been obsessed.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I memorized all the famous photos, I learned to draw pleasiosaurus, I even wrote a dare

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_02]: essay in fourth grade about why you should have due drugs if you want to grow up and be a

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Loch Ness Monster hunter like me.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I spent as much time on the shores of that lake in my mind as almost anywhere else

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: in real life.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: As I infamously told by friend Tina in college, one day you're going to turn on CNN

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and see me riding Nessie straight across the lock.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Until that day comes, this podcast will have to do.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: What are we?

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Scurre.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: When are we all the time?

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Now which is time for time for a scandal.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Skarrel.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Time everybody.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It is the season finale who saw this coming, anyone looking at the calendar I guess.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's the last step and we're decided to do something a little different.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: People you will not miss that this episode is in fact a little bit different.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But in a good way, not in a bad way.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Different in like, oh hey this chocolate chip ice cream also has caramel swirl, not

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: like different.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh hey this ice cream has a rat.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So here's the thing, if you hate it, here's a list of producers and good standing

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_01]: as of July that you can personally write and complain to.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, that's right.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It's producer time for everybody who signed up at the I'm terrified tier.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You are not only in the button of the month club, that's right.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You're a producer.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: If you signed up for the I'm terrified tier, you already know that but listeners may

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_02]: not.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So these are the producers of the show.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We thank you guys very much.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going up up up from here and it's all thanks to you guys.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So with that said, Ed let's hear the names.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know I said you guys can personally blame them.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is gonna be the first time I use everyone's full name.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So definitely don't.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We are saying do not bother these people if you do not like the episode.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Do not do not bother them.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: They're the best.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: They are sweet peas in addition not be bothered.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Alright starting with Kevin Williams, then we move to, this is your no particularly

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: order other than how they show up on my screen right now.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Sean Klein, Matthew sang stock, my mom, Kristen Tatterson, Samantha Cartamon, Cassandra

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: O'Born, Carly Cannon, Gabrielle Goodfellow, my brother, Christopher Memorow,

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Katharine Lombardi, Charlotte Shoevron, Chevron, Claire Bellantine, Jonathan Banta, Lauren Martinez

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Embrosio Lemelli, Kristen Skoonover, Skinover, Melissa Larson, Justin Richardson,

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Ariel, last name I always say that it's the way it's written here.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It's thank you Ariel.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And then to move on and truly insane one buttercup honey cut thanks again.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Donna Bowden, Royce Louise, Jeff Q.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm that's not even for their anonymity they did down their own.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Marshall Kerchak, Kerchak, Justin Heron,

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Justin Heron, Diana Elder, Tabby Ford, very fun name.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's about like can't tell when you Bronco or Branco Bronco probably was a fun

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: name as well.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You are all fucking wonderful producers in good standing as of the month of July 2024.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much and you know what's fun about that list is I feel like we're getting

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: to know some of those names.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Like these are people who also obviously they very much enjoy the show.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So they comment on things, they're on Facebook, they're on Instagram,

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: some of which we've met in person and it monster fans.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them we've met in person and monster fans so it's really cool to like have

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: producers of the show who are not just people that are names on a screen.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's actually people that we talk to and interact with us.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And they interact with us so that makes it even cooler.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you haven't signed up for premium yet,

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know where to do it.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Scared.supercast.com, go check it out.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a lot of great rewards and as the show grows and we're able to start

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you know getting our legs under us more and we feel like we've got a hungry audience.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We are going to be trying some new things like this episode like possibly some live

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: viewing rewards where we watch movies with you guys and kind of have fun and drink

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and make jokes while we watch them together.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a couple of other things in the works.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's all just a matter of how dumb we are.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And now well we can figure these things out and how much interest there is and so far you

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_02]: guys have been showing there's a lot of interest.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're really thankful for that.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess with all that said, Ed's going to go hit the road and drive back to Los Angeles.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You guys are going to go listen to the season finale of season three covering one of my favorite

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: topics of all time, the Loch Ness Monster.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And if anyone's listening to this episode on the date comes out, I'm already on the road.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So true.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Correct.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't listen to Chris.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm already on the road.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Whether time just hits your sweet pears.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Listen there's so much time travel going on with this show sometimes I forget who's

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: where when to quote another podcast that love one is what?

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Alright well when is now in now is the season finale.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get it started.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: As anyone who's been listening to this show for more than I don't know, three or four

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_02]: episodes probably knows.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been wanting to do an episode of the Loch Ness Monster for a very long time, especially

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: after monster fast where we were surrounded by all kinds of people selling Nessie art

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and Nessie stuffed animals.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Ed, you know, you're driving it back across the country for me.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I bought a Nessie stuffed animal before we left.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't fit it in my carry on.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's in Ed's car.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: He's going to drive it back across the country.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to put it in the passenger seat.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to buckle it in.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want that thing getting hurt.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So we all know I'm obsessive, but I thought a good way to start this show would be

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to ask Ed what he knows about the Loch Ness Monster.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So Ed, what do you know about the Loch Ness Monster?

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what everyone knows that it's a monster that lives in Loch Ness, which when I

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: went to Scotland, I learned was the equivalent of like just saying Lake.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought Loch Ness Monster, I didn't know what the fuck that term was until I got there

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and realized that was like the name of where it lives.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I also didn't know it was two words.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just so crazy to me.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So in your head it was just like L.O.C. N.E.S.S.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought it was like, who's in your class?

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, like, oh, I'm there, Chris Glowry's there, Loch Ness Monster's there.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was just felt like a first and last name a little bit.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's kind of where it ends.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just kind of a dinosaur-shaped monster.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Although, I will say this, the Loch Ness Monster, it's funny.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, I don't know why I think this, but it feels like it's the most adorable of the

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: cryptids because I feel like so often people have shown the Loch Ness Monster as

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: like a little goofball.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Like having little, like, little smile, little, even the showart that I'm sure

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: people have seen before they listen to his episode.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Also shows him that way.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like a little hurty.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We prefer, is it a lady?

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think sort of like a boat is a lady.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, fair enough.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess what I'm saying is, I think the Loch Ness Monster is adorable in

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the lives and a place that I can't believe they haven't found it yet.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe Loch Ness is huge.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I actually don't know.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, we're going to find out some of those facts.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty good.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a pretty simple grasp on things.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I think most of our audience probably has at least that level.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them probably know way more.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think the base thing to know, Ed kind of touched on, the Loch Ness Monster or

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Nessie, as she's been called since the 1940s, is a creature said to be living in the

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: dark waters of Loch Ness in Inverness, Scotland.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Theories are all over the place as to what exactly the monster is.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Everything from Pleasiusaur to giant eel to long neck seal to tourists trap to demons

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: summoned by Alistair Crowley to Pleasiusaur but actually a ghost Pleasiusaur have all been

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: put on the table.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever she is, she's really enough that two investigators gave her a scientific name in

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: 1975, Nessaterus Ramboptorics.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Ness Monster with the diamond-shaped fins.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're familiar with Loch Ness lore, you know exactly how she got that name and if

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you aren't, don't worry, we will catch you up before the end of this episode.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: This is, I didn't even know what shaped the fins were.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the fins are beneath the water in that famous picture.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Ed, you're going to learn you have so much to learn.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be great.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll say this before we really dive into it, based a little bit and what we said earlier.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Dive in.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh boy, yep.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: As you were talking there, I was kind of thinking a bit more about what I knew about

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the Loch Ness Monster and I guess we'll probably get into it.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Why the fuck do I know anything about the Loch Ness Monster?

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Why is Loch Ness Monster to me kind of on par in terms of culture made me aware of it

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in the way that Roswell crashes?

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Why is the Loch Ness Monster at that same level of just no would exist?

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Was it a bugs bunny cartoon?

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what was it that put it on the radar of me through Osmosis?

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, pre internet and stuff like you just knew about it to the point where I made an Instagram

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: post a long time ago.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: That was I put a little tiny fedora on the famous photo of Nessie and it says Elliot

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Loch Ness.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was for no one.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I got like one like.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we sure, I mean, I, you don't have to answer that.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It was just something I figured I would posit.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: My theory on that, although you know, I don't it's funny.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Nessie is fairly underrepresented in TV and movies, which is something that I'm trying

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to change every day of my life.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But I would say I think Nessie holds a special place in the public's imagination up there

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02]: with big foot as a creature that particularly during the 1970s.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I haven't ever like put too much thought into this.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, the 1920s and 30s when people first started, well, I guess it was really

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the 1930s when people first started reporting the Loch Ness monster.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It was kind of the last gasp of the idea that real grounded practical science could find

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: undiscovered places, could find undiscovered creatures.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there were a lot of famous like explorers clubs back then.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: The first movie based on the book, The Lost World came out in 1925 or something.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that might be later in the episode.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So in the mid 20s into the 30s, that feeling that we might be able to solve these

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_02]: mysteries kind of capture the public's imaginations.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it all came roaring back in the 1970s.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: There was sort of a new age awakening in America and elsewhere in the world.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And there were a lot of books being written about ancient aliens,

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: about big foot, about Loch Ness because we were entering this new kind of scientific era

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: post the atomic age where people felt like, okay, well maybe we can solve these things using

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: science.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that time magazine, you know, Leonard Nemoys in search of those kinds of things

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: made particularly big foot in the Loch Ness monster, Ghost Aliens, very popular.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And then they just sort of circulated, you know, they were just sort of everywhere.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone kind of knows them.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It did become like Roswell, it did become common knowledge.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And the photo that you're talking about, it's actually a photo we don't talk about in this

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: episode because it is notoriously fake.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You're thinking of the surgeon's photo, just a black and white photo.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We're like, Nancy is going away from you.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: No, that I think what you might be thinking of is is it in color facing away from you?

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's black and white.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You're mixing up two photos in your head.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I probably am.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: The black and white photo is the surgeon's photo, which is the traditional head in neck.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I am definitely mixing them up.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You're using the Lake Champlain photo, which is my favorite.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that picture that Ed is holding up to the camera right now of Elliott Loch Ness

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: is the surgeon's photo.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: The photo of a monster facing away from the camera is champ.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The Sandra Nancy photo from the 70s.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was taken in America.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll do it episode on champ.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That photo, the facing away from you, Nancy champ photo is my pants down favorite

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: cryptid image of all time.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: The black and white one, the surgeon's photo was admitted.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: The guy who created it admitted to it being a hoax.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a toy submarine beneath the water with a, I forget how he fabricated the head and neck.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But he did.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I think on his deathbed confessed to it being fake.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But people were already pretty suspicious because somebody at one point I think was like

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: a study of the waves because something to do with the shape and size of the waves.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It was pretty obvious that the head and neck you were looking at was smaller than the guy who took

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: the photo whose name I can't remember.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Was saying that it was.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, we'll get into photos a little bit.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, that's my theory on why the Loch Ness monster captured the public's imagination.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Also before we dive in, I hope you put a splash sound effect every time we say dive in.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see how much time I have on the day.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I should say this episode is not going to be a comprehensive look at everything there is

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: to know about Nessie.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: None of our fear of the unknown episodes are going to be comprehensive looks at the things

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that we're discussing.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's astonishing.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Legends job, they do a great job of it.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: They're the best in the biz.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They're the best in the biz and so these are going to be comprehensive.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It's more fun.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It's whatever catches my attention.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_02]: The pieces of the lore that I love.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, there's going to be holes.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: If you are an expert on any of these topics,

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to be like, why didn't they talk about this?

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's because it just didn't seem interesting to me at the time.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also say this is not intended to be a part one, but I do suspect as we continue

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_02]: fear of the unknown.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I could do 10 hours on the Loch Ness monster.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I could do an astonishing legend's episode.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll probably come back to it more than once.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But for now, this is a standalone Loch Ness monster episode that will have some,

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_02]: but not all information about the Loch Ness monster.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: That was a nice disclaimer.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this took a job away from Mr. Slamer there, but it's fine.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, call him up.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Call him right now and let him do one for me.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: He hasn't been on a while.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: He was on the good episode.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Two's on caves.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just been busy.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_02]: How to kid.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Now he's daddy disclaimer.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Daddy's disclaimer.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So why is the Loch Ness monster my favorite cryptid?

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Ed kind of almost touched on this without even realizing it.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: To me, Loch Ness and its secrets are an almost perfect

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: crypto-zoological puzzle.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Here we have a creature that is both fearsome and awe-inspiring,

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: living in a setting that is one of the prettiest places on earth.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And while we'll probably touch on the Loch Ness to the sea later,

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: at the end of the day, the Loch Ness monster is a beast that's either in the lake or it's not.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Bigfoot can hide all over North America.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Sea monsters have the entire sea, the 80% unexplored oceans that Ed calls out or space.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Aliens have all of real outer space, but lake monsters are more tangible.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: They have a very specific environment.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The Loch is about 22 square miles.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: That's fucking huge.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's big.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's big.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's 23 miles long and 755 feet deep at its deepest point.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Although recently somebody claims to have discovered

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: 800 in something foot spot, but it's not recognized yet.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's no slouch in terms of size, but it is still relatively contained

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: compared to a continent or the ocean.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: If you were looking for a person in a 22 square mile area,

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you'd probably find them.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And the Loch Ness monster is both a great deal larger than a person

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and in all likelihood not a single individual.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what's so enticing about it.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You stand on the shore, you look out over the water, and it's like

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it could be right there just beneath the surface.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like a Crypto-Zoological Shotinger's cat,

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: a human-mins cat, if you will.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That's joke for three people.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not one of them.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: We Bernard human is a famous chronicleer and writer

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: about sea serpents and lake monsters.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: We won't know if the Loch Ness monster is alive or not

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: until we find it.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But finding it, that's the trick.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Because despite our best efforts getting any concrete evidence

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that Nessie exists has remained frustratingly out of our grasp.

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Since 1901, there have been more than a dozen well-funded and organized

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: searches of the Loch and untold numbers of smaller investigations,

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: not of which have turned up anything truly undeniable like a body or bones.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: There are photos, radar hits, sonar recordings, compelling film and video and

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: thousands of eyewitness accounts.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But that is not enough to fully convince me.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a big believer in the saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And while Nessie swims through the Loch and my imagination,

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see much in the way of extraordinary evidence that can't be explained

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: by misidentification at best and hoaxes at worst.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we get into all that though, this is part of the show where we take a tour

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02]: through the history of the subject at hand.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And since our listeners probably know a little to everything there is to know about

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Nessie already, I thought we'd try something a little different.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And instead of a rundown of information just from articles online,

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought we'd break out a source that we used in the Bramuda Triangle episode

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: we did with Let's Get Haunted.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right, we're turning to my best selling series that I wrote is a second grader

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: True but strange unsolved mysteries.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Hold it up, I want to see it.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh shit.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And for people who aren't an premium yet, this is actually the third time

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: True but strange unsolved mysteries are shown up on our show.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there was a truly insane wear-wolf incantation on the last live show.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if you missed it you missed it, but definitely sign up because

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: there's other crazy stuff in my archives that I will be pulling from for sure.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But volume one here, per Muutotrangle and wear-wolf's Revolume 2,

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: this is OG Volume 1, written December 8, 1994,

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and this volume features Ghosts, Bigfoot UFOs, and the Loch Ness Monster,

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and Moquilibu Bembe.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted to start with just the beginning of my chapter two,

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Loch Ness Monster, Ed can see this photo here.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'll put these in the notes.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's from what I can tell.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He's drawn, I'm going to ignore the main part first and just tell you about how he's drawn the sky,

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_01]: in blue crayon, over all of the words, so it's nearly impossible to read.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And then below that it looks like Bart Simpson in some sort of long red cape at the shore.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, he's holding, I don't know if it's a sex tent or...

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a cross.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he's holding a cross and then in the water coming out of the water is like the huge

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: head of what I would describe as like an eel standing out of its eye and legs.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's saying Roro No Black Yum.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's speaking English, and then at the bottom underneath, so the Bart Simpson type character,

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: this will all be in the show notes.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The Bart Simpson type character is on a cliff-search,

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and then off of the cliff, a second Bart Simpson looking person has splash into the water with the

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_01]: splash and their word bubble, I cannot see what it says.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It says help.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so there are in a real situation.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I don't know, I think so basically someone's fallen into the water,

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Nessie might be there to help, but the person on the cliff is like,

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_01]: don't worry I got it with my cross, my cross will solve all of this.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and you're forgetting the detail of the disembodied hand with the blood that's already floating

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: in the water.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I thought that was a flame thrower.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, that's a hand because

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: as the text here tells us chapter two, Loch Ness Monster.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Go across the lake anyway said St. Columbus.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, said John.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Rore, water exploded all around.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: St. Columbus said, Monster go away and never hurt anyone.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: A man had just been killed by the same monster going across the lake.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Next page says that is the first reported sighting of the Loch Ness Monster.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about you, but I think there have been too many sightings to ignore.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: In the last century there have been 1,000 sightings and in this picture is the Loch Ness Monster.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow. So the Loch Ness Monster just for the people at home is a totally different

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: color now and considerably smaller it kind of just looks like a fist coming out of the water.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah or like a piece of driftwood maybe?

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Just like the real Loch Ness Monster.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I think I actually base that drawing on there is a photograph.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I forget what hoax or took it of a brown muppet looking head coming out of the water of Loch Ness

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think that's what I was trying to draw on that photo, but okay, so these first two pages are

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: a little thin on details.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I do give little Chris points for starting the chapter in media res with the somebody was already dead

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and the person is being told to go across the water anyway.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Did that very elegantly explain that in the writing, but the attempt was made.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So to fact check myself, the same thing question is not St. Columbus.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if there is a St. Columbus. What I was going for was St. Columbus who was an Irish

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: habit missionary in Scholar for December 7th, 521, who helped spread Christianity throughout Scotland.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: According to an article in the National Catholic Register, St. Columbus was also a statesman

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: diplomat, historical scholar and author and a poet. He founded many churches and monasteries,

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: both Scotsman and Irishmen alike, review his name and are eternally grateful to him for

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: civilizing their pagan ancestors and offering them Christ's promise of salvation in eternal reward.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, so chill, chill Catholic Register. We talked about this in the cannabis episode

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and St. Columbus was Peter Faulk, and everyone thanked him for solving crimes.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I would love that show. So yeah, let's head through around Sarah Taps about the uncivilized.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure St. Columbus is a fine man. Anyway, this is a pretty foundational story in Loch Nessalore.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It is the first appearance of the monster in the historical record.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And what's pretty cool, I think, is that the source for the story is actually much better

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: documented than it just being a myth or a folk tale. Because St. Columbus was pretty important

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and well regarded in his day, he had a biography written about him called the life of St. Columbus.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was published in the seventh century by another saint, the saint who had written it,

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Saint Adam Nond, which I feel like is maybe an Irish name.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably, which means you fucked it up, I'm sure it's so crazy to pronounce it.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But what's cool is basically a primary source for this story exists.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It was published probably about 100 years after the event was said to have happened,

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_02]: so definitely enough time for exaggeration to sneak in there. But as far as these things go,

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: it's pretty of the era from which the story occurred. The story in the biography goes that on

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: August 22nd, 565 AD, while standing upon the bank of the river Ness, which flows out to Loch Ness.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is something people point out sometimes. This first sighting of the Loch Ness monster

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_02]: didn't actually occur in Loch Ness. It took place in the river flowing out of Loch Ness

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: into one of the other locks, and I can't remember which one right now.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Are they all connected? There's a couple of locks that are connected in a row that ultimately

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: lead out to the sea. Oh, Ness you could have left 100 years ago. Well, that's the theory.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things we won't really get into in this episode, although I guess we will now.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it okay? Some people have theorized that part of the reason she's so hard to find is because

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever population of Nessies that there are are traveling in and out of the locks in and out

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: from the sea back into the Loch. I don't think that that theory holds much water,

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: no pun intended, but a lot of this tonight. I don't think that the like water can flow in and out.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if giant creatures could also be making their way in and out. But that's an idea

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: for another time. So yes, this takes place in the river Ness and Colomba was standing on the shore

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: contemplating the best way to cross to the other side because in 565 AD a river was a problem

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: deserving of contemplation. There wasn't as if there wasn't a bridge you had to figure out a

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: different way across. So there was taking some time. And as you consider the problem, he came

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: across a group of what are described as heathenish. So again, chill. Yeah, before a St. Colomba

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: to care of it. Heathenish picked who were busy burying a friend who had been attacked by an enormous

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_02]: water beast while swimming in the river. So this is actually where a miracle that's usually

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: left out of the shorter version of the story occurs. Colomba shocked these heathened picks

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: by laying his staff across the dead man's chest which caused him to stand up and live again.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, that's maybe above the pay grade of a saint, right? Like that's a full blown god.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: This guy got up to a lot. And that's one of the things, I mean, saints in this era, a lot

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: of the ones who were written about even contemporaneously were constantly performing miracles

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and running into all kinds of creatures. At this point though, I guess St. Colomba was done

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: considering how to solve his river problem because he ordered one of his fellow monks, brother

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: look no, Moquman which cannot be how that name is pronounced. But he ordered Logna to swim across the

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: river and bring back a small boat known as a cobalt which was moored on the opposite shore.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I don't know, I think in my retelling I called brother Logna Moquman John, which is what

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to call him now because I think it's Logna's a nightmare. Logna, so basically he was like,

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, Logna go steal that boat. Yep, so Logna stripped off his tunic and immediately jumped into

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: the water. The monster still hungry and alerted by Logna's splashing around surface and race

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: towards the monk. Everyone on the shore, including the heathens, cried out hoping to warn

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the monk of his impending doom. However, Colomba was unmoved. Instead, the saint stepped

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: forward to the edge of the river and made the sign of the cross while invoking the name of the Lord,

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and he said, you will go no further. Do not touch the man, leave it once. And even though the

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: monster is described as no more than a spears length away from the swimming monk,

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: it stopped and fled at the sound of the saints' words as it's described in the writing,

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: it moved more quickly than if it had been pulled back with ropes. Oh wow, and we know from

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you're drawing in your little book that it does begin, so it understood. Yeah, it understood.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The monster fled back into the depths of the river, allowing Brother Logna to paddle the boat

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_02]: back on harmed and according to the story, the power of the double miracle caused the heathens

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: to give glory to the god of the Christians and convert on the spot where they were baptized

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: in the now monster free waters over the nest. And people have taken pain to point out that's

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: the only time in the lore that we know of that the Loch Ness monster has ever been described as attacking

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: somebody, so perhaps Nessie converted in that moment as well. Yeah, Christian.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought you're going to say that Nessie was just looking out for whoever's boat that was

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: being like, hey buddy, that's not free. But it back. But it back. Okay, fine, only.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Fuck me that in just leaves. Yeah. Art. John slash lug nut was was drowning. Wanted to help.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe like a dolphin. Then he saw a guy shouting all crazy on the on the shore and was like,

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: well, I don't need this trouble. I'm not here. Well, yeah, I mean, say Columbus, I scratched the surface

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: a little deeper on him and he was a man of action. This guy sounds intense. This guy was a profit.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: He prophesized on the regular. He cured the sick, the disabled and the lame. Once speaking of things

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that I think are reserved for Jesus, he didn't have wine so he changed water into wine. Oh, wow,

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: he's for mass. This is a free market. He's a competing. Feeding entity, I guess. Yeah, he was

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to make an A for himself. He produced water from a rock. He calmed storms. It's sea. He

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: ems. Yep, he subdued other savage beasts like boars and serpents. He provided several fish

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_02]: from in with bountiest catches of fish brought peace to warring factions and also multiplied a herd

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: of cattle. He was the goat, dude. And exercise, dude. He was the fucking goat. Yes, he was the goat.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: When it comes to saints. Yep. So, Saint Columbuh, if I had to pick a saint on my fantasy football team,

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: on my fantasy football team, he'd be he'd be up there. So moving on from Saint Columbuh, the next page

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: in the book. And this is where we will put the picture of this page, but I also encourage you to look at

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: the other links in the show notes is the Loch Ness photo file. Oh, wow. That is that is a serial

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: killer, Zerox, I've ever seen one. Yeah, this is this is my plan to

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_02]: strain and murder the Loch Ness monster in the back of a van based on the way this looks. That's

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_02]: great images from various Loch Ness monster books onto a page. And it reminded me, and we've talked

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: about how we both put together our own little ex files as kids. Did yours have a lot of photos?

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, we were pretty much exclusively typewriter written stuff and whatever stamps we can get

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: from like by dad's office because there was be like a one guy who sent that all the invoices

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and they had like paid stamps, confidential stamps, the big ones. Yeah, so we had to like work

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: mainly stamp based creativity. Sure, photos were my favorite thing to put in the files because

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd go to the library and photocopy whatever I could. Was it a photocop machine you'd put like a

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: diamond or like a nickel in? Yeah, yeah, so I'd get a little bit of change and I'd photocopy all

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_02]: these photos which I think is why the subjects of Tubers' Ranger and Saw Mysteries volume one

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: most of them have photo files and I think it's because they were just all the pictures that I'd

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: photocopy it and I needed somewhere to put them. Sure. So the first photo here, the big one at the top

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: is a large copy of one of Robert Rines' photographs or Rains. I'm not trying to pronounce this

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: last name. It might be my favorite Nessie photo ever. What I'm going to do is I'm going to send

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: color versions of these photos to Ed so that he can see them in all of their glory. Sure. And we

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: all get to see these pictures or just Google as we talk. Oh, what? This looks like a space photography.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm looking at something in the Milky Way. Yes, we're looking at the rainy image that

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_02]: appears to show the torso, long neck head and possibly arm leg, fin-like protrusions. What's

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_02]: really exciting to me or what was really exciting to me is a kid was how this photo was taken. And this

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I realized this as I was writing this episode, I kind of blew my own mind. So this photo was taken

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: in the early 1970s. I think 71 or 72. So I learned about this photo just 20 years after it was

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: taken which is not really that long compared to where we are now in the timeline. Sure. It was

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: still kind of new and it was before I had internet. So all I knew about this photo was that it was spooky

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and mystical feeling. And all I really knew about it was what I could read in the, I don't know,

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: 10 to 12 books on the Loch Ness Monster that I checked out over and over and over again from three

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: or four local libraries. And so the story I knew about this photo went something like this and I'm

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: quoting here from an article on BBVAOpenMind.com. In 1972, American inventor lawyer and musician

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Robert Rines was on his honeymoon in Scotland when he spotted in Loch Ness what he described as a

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_02]: large, darkish hump with rough modeled skin like the back of an elephant. The sighting lasted for over

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_02]: 10 minutes and Rines was not a credulous man. He had a scientific background, although to interject

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: the veracity of his credentials would come under major scrutiny in later years. Oh my god,

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: despite some of his credential theory, he was an MIT graduate. He was an inventor and he was a

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: son our pioneer. He was an internationally celebrated patent attorney who held I think 800

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: some odd patents among them a process for fish growth acceleration and a light communication system

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_02]: for secret signaling that I doubt ever worked very well. Oh my god. He also random fact about

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Robert Rines and I looked high in low online to see if I could find this and I couldn't. But if someone

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: can point me towards it, I'd be forever grateful because I really want to hear it. Rines composed

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: the theme song for a musical about New York Bay or Fierrella La Guardia. Oh wow one day

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: he'll have an airport. Yeah basically the show was called his honor, HIs, ZZO, NER,

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: exclamation point. Wow what year was that? I didn't write down what year it was. I mean it was

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_02]: well after La Guardia was actually the mayor because he was mayor in like the 30s or so. Okay,

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: the show came out in the 60s or 70s and I think they made a TV version at some point.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Well you know who would have written it before it was mayor is Columba. Yeah, because he was always

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_02]: prophesizing everything. And just good at everything. He probably maybe there's some musicals

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: that Columba wrote that we don't even know about. In any case Robert Rines knew that the idea

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_02]: of a monster in the lock was ridiculous and that if he had not seen it with his own eyes,

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: he would have thought it was crazy. He said I may not be able to prove it but I know there

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: was a pleasious sort in lockness because I saw it. So to try to prove it, Robert Rines raised some

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: money organized a team of experts and brought some high tech cameras to the lock. The plan was to

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: merge these cameras deep into the water and connect them to one of his high tech sonar systems.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: When the sonar detected motion, it would then tell the cameras to pop off a few shots.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And because the lock is thick with peat, they also submerge what were essentially giant flashballs

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_01]: in an attempt to illuminate the brackish water. There's a bunch of blind as fuck fished out in

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: there now. This thing is constantly blasting off like explosions of light. Yes, well and so

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: what you're seeing, the reason this looks like a deep space photo is that and I think I might

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: repeat myself a little bit later. But I feel like it's relevant to mention now. The reason

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: this photo is so goddamn grainy is because the flash bulbs didn't just light up the water

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: or the way that they would light up a room. The flash bulbs shot out light that then bounced off

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: of all the peat and all the detritus in the lock that they get hard to see to begin with. So

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that's why it looks like you're looking at this image through fuzz because you sort of are.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see in the lower right hand corner where the flash is going off and then you can see it

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: illuminating all the peat. So that's why it looks like shit. This must be a pretty deep camera

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: then because lock net or excuse me, I want to say lock net is I think it's its first name, you know.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But Nessie is pretty like above it above where the image is taken which means it's in my mind.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It means this is a pretty deep camera that I don't imagine Nessie's like hanging out at the surface a lot.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_02]: No, yeah they sent it I think about a hundred feet down. Yeah. So in 1972,

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Rines announced the first major fruits of his work which is a series of underwater photographs

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02]: of which this one we're looking at is just one of them. We'll look at the others in a bit.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So one of them is this. Just too Nessie's fucking and he's like, I don't even know what. I'm sorry

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone. Yeah. I didn't these are being revealed to me at the same time real time. So I

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: apologize all the children here. So he got a series of photographs. One is this one. Another is a

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: series of three photos that appear to show a diamond shape thin about one half to two meters long

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and the third is what appears to be a gargoyle like head. If you are unfamiliar with these photos

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: like I said, I have linked them all in the show notes and you should definitely take a look.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_02]: At first glance they're all pretty impressive. The first thing though that kind of stuck out to me

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is a kid and Ed here. I'm going to send you this next photo now of the head. Oh my god. Where do

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: you? This is the head? This is the first thing I noticed even as a kid is that that head does not

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: really look like the head of the animal in the first photo that we were looking at. No,

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: nor does this even look like ahead. This looks like someone took a severed eyeball like an eyeball

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: pulled out of a corpse and just like took it by its optic nerve or whatever and lowered it into a

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: glass of I don't know, roop beer. Well, like this is I don't even see these shape of a head here.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay so here I'll try to show you here what people see is the head. So you see that crease

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of on the front where the light is the brightest this? Yeah that crease. Yeah yeah. So

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_02]: to the left of it is in that dark spot as where people see an eye and that the eyes here. Yeah,

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: the eyes there the crease is sort of like a brown nose ridge area and then like the actual

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_02]: mouth is down further towards where there'd be like a point down here and then they see these two horns

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that vrines and one of his other scientists that he worked with thought where these horns on the

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: stick up out of the water so that it doesn't have to raise its head up out of the water. I mean that's

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_01]: interesting but again all I'm seeing here is like a meatball somebody rolled and broken glass

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and then dropped into a jar of root beer. Um yeah, I mean it's not the clearest photo. I can't even

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: amat they must have run out of battery on the laser pointer when they were presenting this trying to be like

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and here you can see using the pointing the laser pointer at it and people will be like show me again

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_01]: how I'm seeing is a root beer logged uh meatball. Okay wait hold on a second hold on a second

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna send you this so this is sort of an artist rendering of what people are seeing.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay this I will say is incredibly helpful yes because it adds I don't know the neck goes

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: a long way yes but this is again it's uh it's an animal of cover where uh Nessie was turning into a

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: asteroid or something. This is like what if Nessie fucked the thing from fantastic four?

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes well that's one way of putting it. My point is just it's definitely not the same animal as

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_02]: the first photo so I think that you know says a lot in of itself unless you're going well like okay

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: one of these represents a female and one of them represents a male or something you've got some

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: explained into do. Yeah no that's rough if that artist rendition didn't exist I'd be still

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: we'd be here all night trying to explain what this is. Trying to tell me that you see anything in

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that photo yeah but okay so here's the thing it doesn't look much like a live animal what it does

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: look a lot like is a lost Loch Ness monster prop that sank in the lock just a few years before

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_02]: the photos were taken a movie shot on the lock a movie called the private life of Sherlock Holmes

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and Ed I'm gonna send you now a still from this movie and if you open that still you'll see

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that that monster head looks a lot more like a version of what they took a picture of underwater

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_01]: then your standard pleasius or oh but these eyes are much bigger but yes it does have whatever

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: those little kind of furled furloughs that has coming out of its head. Yeah well it's been

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it sank into bin underwater for like two years getting covered in you know sultan dust and rotting

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: so you know you can see how it might have fallen apart but the other reason I bring up the private

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: life of Sherlock Holmes it and no one's entirely sure if that is actually what the Ryan's photo

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: represents but when we start our scared all the time viewing series private life of Sherlock Holmes has to

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_01]: go on the list. Well it's my favorite director and I've never seen it which is kind of insane to me.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes that's what I was just gonna say. It's Billy Wilder and it's written by Billy Wilder and Iel

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Diamond who's like one of the greatest writers in cinema history. Yes it is a movie that brings together

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Sherlock Holmes with the Loch Ness monster with Billy Wilder who if you don't know Billy Wilder he made

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: some like at heart the apartment Sabrina 70 or eight. He's he's like for real like before Spielberg

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_01]: hitchcock has it a little bit but like nobody was firing on all cylinders like that.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It was batting a thousand for a long time. He must have really hated this though it's been buried

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: even I don't have it. This has been buried but it is it's like fighting out that hitchcock made

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_02]: a forgotten movie about bigfoot or something you'd be like wait what the fuck he did why yeah so

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: we have to watch us I've never seen it so anyway we will watch it we'll do a watch a longer

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: something it'll be great but the prop that broke off its moring and sank was found in 2016 so

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_02]: it is still in the Loch and somewhat intact they didn't try to raise it or anything but it is

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_02]: out there and it could be what Robert Ryan's took a photo of. Now that brings us to the flipper photos

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: okay the flipper photos are classics of the dolphin flipper no the flipper I don't know if it was

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: like there was a 13 year period where the dolphin flipper and Loch Nests were inseparable they were best

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: of friends that and this was a series from that time period in their lives we are going to get

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: to some dolphins in the Loch momentarily too but add click that link again listener I encourage you

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_01]: if you don't know these photos look at the show notes uh it was an ultra sound of a newborn Loch

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_01]: these are the ultra sound of a newborn Nests. These were taken within a split second of each

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_02]: other when something large swamp passed the camera and these are the photos that convinced

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: enough of the scientific community that there is something going on these photos are part of

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_02]: the reason that the Loch Nests monster lives on as it does in pop culture because if it was a

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_01]: pop or something it wouldn't move and this is like clearly if these are two separate photos

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: like there's a distinct movement of yes like it's going past the camera yes with as little adorable

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: arm yes and flippers fins what have you are something that people think of please you

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: source as having and these photos have extra high tech bonafidies because Ryan took the photos

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: to no less of experts than the people at JPL in Pasadena the Jet Propulsion Laboratory which in fairness

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_02]: back then was like a breeding ground for satanic cults yeah yeah more than it was like sending

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_02]: satellites to space that too but they had some photographic enhancement equipment that he wanted

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to use to try to figure out what these images were and that's neat that's very neat but here's

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the thing it begs the question of what the unenhanced photos look like and when did you know it

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: people were able to dig off the unenhanced photos so Ed go ahead and click that link

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that's not anything it's not this is an anything such a bummer can you describe to the listeners

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean it's something that is described I mean that's actually very easy to describe listener

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_01]: imagine you had a tank of green water like I don't know just a jar of mountain dew

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you lowered a potato in it like a russet potato into it and then took a blurry photo

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_01]: of the potato in green water yeah and that is what I'm looking at I to be honest I don't even know

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: how they got the flipper shape out of this image no no uh in hands photo it's just a separate

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: photograph it's it's just it looks like they might have just drawn the flippers it's also looks

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit like it's a given a tiny as to be the credence the tiny as to be the credence it

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of looks like if you try to take a photograph of a manatee but like really too close yeah

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_01]: well you just got like the fucking side of a fat manatee well right to be fair this was I mean

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah they didn't have the technology that we do now so you know the idea of like part of the

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_02]: reason that they set up this whole sonar system was because they don't have auto focus so they need

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_02]: to try to take pictures of things at a certain focal distance from the lens which depending

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_02]: on what direction the thing is moving is very hard to do so you know I also think one of the

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_02]: problems with the Ryan's photos is this underwater flash yes you did need it to have any

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_02]: chance in hell of taking a picture of anything but because the light is bouncing off all those

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_02]: peat particles it's not only hard to tell what you're looking at it's hard to tell what you're

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_02]: enhancing when you enhance the photo are you enhancing something there or you just enhancing peat

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_02]: particles like it's impossible but Robert Ryan's wasn't deterred by any of these details

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_01]: do you think this is where the term for peat's sake comes from a peat's sake you think you see anything

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_02]: probably not but I'll put that in my head cannon now that that's where it came from

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Ryan's you know he was a man of he contained multitudes Ryan's contained multitudes he was a man

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_02]: of science he knew that this was a lunatic thing that he was trying to prove but he was convinced that

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_02]: was an animal in the lock and when he got these photos he was encouraged what he wanted to do

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: more than anything was get the lockness monster officially listed as an endangered species so that

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_02]: his fear was once this became even more popular when these photos came out he was genuinely concerned

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that people were going to come try to hunt it and kill it as a good concern that's a concern that's

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_01]: has tons of historical yeah a fucking course they would but for it to be protected as an endangered

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_02]: species it needed to be scientifically described and named so he teamed up with a naturalist this

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: guy surpeter Scott who was the son of some other famous naturalist to describe and name the

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: lockness monster so they settled on necitoris rhombopteryx as its scientific name again meaning

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_02]: ness monster with diamond shaped fins they published in nature not a peer reviewed paper but

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_02]: they did publish an editorial in nature that named it and also described its anatomy and also speculated

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_02]: on its origin which they said was of a pleasius or population that became landlocked some 12,000

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_02]: years ago they said it numbered a viable population that could be less than 30 individuals and

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_02]: its diet is mainly fish including salmon of which the lock has plenty but a couple things about that

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_02]: well okay before a couple things about that I will say to me the best thing that came out of this

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_02]: so i said earlier my favorite cryptosological image is the mancee photo and that's my favorite

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_02]: photograph my other favorite cryptosological image is Peter Scott's painting of a pair of nessies

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_02]: that was his attempt at trying to give us the best look at what these creatures look like

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_02]: when in love so at that is the painting it's called courtship in lockness so i was them in love

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_02]: i wasn't wrong yeah it's my favorite piece of cryptid art of all time like i think it's a

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_02]: genuinely like i love aliens and monsters and ghosts and all that stuff there's very little alien

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_02]: ghost monster art that i would ever hang up in my house this is one of the things that i would

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_02]: be beautiful like it's peaceful it's achy and bruised it captures to me like a sense of forbidden

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: nature like it's not scary but you feel like you're seeing something that you're not supposed

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to be seeing i don't know because they look like skinny dicks they're heads in that look like

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_01]: skinny dicks they look like manatees they look like manatee no they well it's like if a manatee

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_01]: had a dick nose or if the one on the right so if anyone looks at this in the show notes there's

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: like one on the right who's back is like cresting out of the water so i have no idea how tall

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the rest of that body goes it could very well just be a dick of a bigger creature no it's not

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a little it's a little cute hump and it's cruising through the water of lockness okay

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_02]: so Peter Scott RIP god bless you painted a beautiful image as far as the rest of this i am a

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_02]: firm believer that if the lockness monster is real and not some sort of supernatural creature there

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_02]: must be a breeding population so good on them for suggesting that but 30 is a wildly low number

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to avoid in breeding it's not impossible was it how their heads got so skinny and weird

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_01]: this is why they're all lumpy well the years of fucking the three that they knew they're all lumped

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_01]: up from all that inscess yeah they probably didn't even start with diamond shaped fits yeah

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_02]: there are animal species that number less than 100 there's a tiny little porpice called the

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_02]: which lives off the coast of bexico that has been cataly as few as 20 remaining in the wild so

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_02]: it's possible but we're talking about a sizeable animal with at least 30 realistically closer to

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_02]: 100 individuals living again in a 22 square mile lake think of it this way LA County has three

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_02]: mountain lions living in 100 square miles and people see them on a pretty regular basis yeah

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_01]: but they can't go underground I mean how many mole men live in the lay and we have no idea

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: sure or the hundreds of people who live like underground in Vegas there's like documentaries about it

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah yeah people don't see them you know and at LA is much more populated that this got a

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_02]: silence but again it stretches crudulity for me the other thing that stretches crudulity

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that drives me nuts and people I don't think point this out enough so i'm gonna point it out

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_02]: is that rines his theory proposes that these pleziosaurus became landlock 12,000 years ago

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_02]: which is a perfectly fine theory except that's supposed the pleziosaurus were breeding in

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_02]: large enough numbers for a community of them to become landlocked 12,000 years ago

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah which ignores the fossil evidence that pleziosaurs lived from the late triassic into

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the late cartatious which was 215 million to 66 million years ago so even if they survived I don't

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_02]: even think mammoths were living 12,000 years ago I mean they've been around they've been around a minute

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_02]: okay so mammoths died out between 14,000 and 10,000 years ago so maybe that's where some of this

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_02]: mammoths were still alive that possibly pleziosaurs were hanging out too when you've point this out

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: people are then quick to point out the sealicant which is a prehistoric fish was only discovered

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_02]: to still be living in the 1930s which is very cool but I counter it was in fact discovered

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_02]: in the open ocean in the 1930s and is much smaller than a pleziosaurus wow that's true

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe they're just chiller they'll come to your call he'll pick what's up it'll pick

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_02]: they're very big fish you know we call the sealicant is colloquially known as a living fossil because

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_02]: it is so rare and crazy that it still is alive when the rest of it we just have evidence in the

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_02]: fossil record so this is where I point out that okay the sealicant was discovered in 1938 which is

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_02]: five years after the first modern sighting of the Loch Ness monster is the sealicant still with us

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_02]: yes and in fact they've discovered I believe one or two additional species of sealicant

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_02]: oh my god when it rains at force yeah the first film of adaptation of the Lost World like I said earlier

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_02]: came out in like 20-1925 or 1928 but they had to revise it when the other fuckers were found

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought they were like they were like dammit in the Lost World we talk about how certainly

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_02]: dead the sealicant is and now we look like fooling up with fools so this idea was out there that

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_02]: there were these creatures the very edge of science and it was kind of permeating popular culture and

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and so I think that kind of moment has something to do with why people were quick to point out

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that maybe the Loch Ness monster was so sort of a pleased you saw but there are two other details

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that are damaging to the pleased you saw theory. I have one I think I have one I can guess go for it

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that their spines only cost like fifty dollars. Fuck you my my my

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_02]: pleased you saw a vertebrae I don't have it on my desk in front of me but it's a treasured item whether or not

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a cow who knows but no two other damning details one pleased you saw is didn't actually

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_02]: have diamond shaped fins they had flippers but they were more like seals or dolphins like

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_02]: their more uh fin shaped the diamond shaped. Not in that painting you just showed me that painting and

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_01]: the insane that insane like enhanced photograph. No I know but but the painting and the enhanced

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: photograph were both creations of rines and and Scott who were leaning towards so they took the photo

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_02]: then they enhanced it they found this diamond shaped fin in the photo and then Peter Scott went and

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_01]: painted his painting based on that photo and then Billy Wilder wrote a movie that included Nessie

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_01]: with a co-writer name I.A.L. Diamond what is that what what is I.L. Diamond definitely

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_01]: do with this. I'm just saying his name is diamond and this is a diamond shaped fin. Oh I see I

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: see I got it all right that took me a second um this is what I was gonna say before we went off

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_02]: on the tangent was it pains me I want the Loch Ness monster to be a pleased you saw or some

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_02]: hyper-revolved version of a pleased you saw or more than anything when I dream of riding Nessie

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_02]: across the Loch that's what I dream of. The creatures in the Scott painting that's what I want

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_02]: more than anything but it's not great the pleased you saws didn't have diamond shaped fins so

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe these super pleased you saw is evolved to have diamond shaped fins. Sure possible. Yeah there's

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_02]: also the small detail though that most reports of the Loch Ness monster don't actually feature

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_02]: long Ness. It's generally believed that there have been about 1500 catalog sightings the Loch

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Ness monster but only about 20% of those reports mentioned a neck of any length so the long neck

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_01]: is not the monster's normal form. Whoa do you think it it um it gets hard like it's neck like

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't say it like maybe it's all small and then it gets big. It's possible Ed you are you are

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_02]: what's the word you're drunk. No that might be that might be the word but I was you're

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you're demeaning my beloved creatures with dick jokes but that's fine. I generally don't do

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_01]: this type of comedy in my career it's just when you see a dick you know it that's basically where

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting at so it's yeah can't help that you've shown me like seven pictures of fucking

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_02]: dick neck manities. Well all that said Robert Rines would continue to employ unusual methods

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_02]: to find evidence of this creature in the Loch in a book called search at Loch Ness which documents

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_02]: a highly publicized 1976 hunt author Dennis L. Meredith writes that Rines spent the part of

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_02]: one summer trying to apply the animal with tempting spells and sounds this is about to sound like

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_02]: a humunculus recipe quote there were sex glands of eels c cows c lions there were substances

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_02]: known to attract fish and there were tapes of various sea animal sounds to be fed into underwater

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_02]: speakers yeah so that was one attempt and then in 1979 here's where we come back around a flipper

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Rines enlisted new team members in his quest a pair of bottled nose dolphins according to reports

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_02]: in the New York Times Rines was training the dolphins at a Florida facility to wear harnesses and

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_02]: vests tricked out with strobe lights and miniature cameras. This poor dolphin according to an account

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_02]: in a June 1979 issue of new scientists special lightweight cameras were designed to fit inside a

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_02]: cylinder just 10 centimeters in diameter and everything was falling into place according to Rines the

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_02]: dolphins had succeeded in trailing sea turtles and sharks which sounds like he did not care for

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_02]: the safety of these dolphins one bit that he has them hunting sharks one over there thought

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_01]: these are dolphins who are also the life of the party they show up at the black and

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_01]: fucking strobe light is okay you boys want to party it was like oh yeah so yeah who's gonna fight

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that dolphin that they're like that dolphin has Molly Rines rines told the news service quote

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_02]: the obvious problems of using the dolphins in freshwater and it relatively lower temperatures

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_02]: have received very careful attention which I would certainly hope because yes these are salt water

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_02]: creatures that live in generally warm environments that are going to get plunged into a fresh

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_02]: water lake in Scotland which even in the summer I don't know how warm that water gets yeah

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: it's gotta be like what are you seeing down there like as if you're at dolphin you're seeing

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: vegetation and underwater life that you have never fucking never yeah and you're dressed in a vest

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_01]: in a fucking party in a boom box in a fucking disco ball with you. Toast I was like who wants

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to party I mean this haunted house I hate this after training the dolphins were slated to go

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: through a period of what was called acclamation to colder water before being spirited away to the

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: side during training. Oh no. Rine said it was because it was separated from its trainer and

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: died of a broken heart. Oh my god to me sounds like Rine's fuck this dolphin to death and

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the onion or something or Rine's made the mistake of loading its boom box with just the

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_02]: saddest balance. Yeah I don't know what the hell they're covering up but the fact that

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: their go-to story was well gee I don't know it was separated from its trainer and died of a

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_02]: broken heart excuse me no it didn't. Yeah I know way you killed this dolphin there's no fucking

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: way buddy. Everyone came out the party and was like uh anyone check on the dolphin it's just dead

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're like I don't know it must be a broken heart definitely not all the cocaine ringing

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: its blowhold. I love that in this version they are just party dolphins. Yeah anyway Rine's even after

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: this continued his expeditions in one form or another for decades though he would never again

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: produce evidence as compelling as the underwater photos which you know at least makes me think

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: he was approaching the endeavor somewhat honestly he wasn't coming out with new and better photos

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: every couple of years. Yeah that's true. Which is very much unlike the man who produced the next

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: photo in my photo file here okay. Ed I'm gonna have you look at this and tell the listeners what we

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: know okay it's kind of like you know this horse head costume horse heads they're like all

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: floppy and rubber they people put on and they do videos themselves with this little horse head.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You know I'm talking about the shy of the shit websites like that used to have it's kind

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: of like if somebody put that style head but it's a messy head on a camel and then they put that

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: camel in the water. Yeah all right that's sure I can see that I would I go. So what I'm seeing here

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: is two very distinct camelish haunts that are like sticking out of the water and then there's a

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_01]: small flat spot of water with a third item coming out which is definitively ahead it has like a very

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: funny little truck door mouth. Yes. Consumant Vs, burninating the villagers. Hell yeah so that is

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: what I'm looking at so it's like again someone put a camel in the water and a messy head on the

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: camel and they said scoot out there what I get a shot. We'll get this this photo was taken or produced

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: one way or another by a man named Frank Cirl. Frank Cirl spoiler alert fucking rocks. Okay he had

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: access to camels in northern Scotland. He's kind of a scumbag but he's one of those old school

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: scumbags that's like will drown a camel for fame. No no camels were involved in the making of this

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: photo. That's hard to believe. Hard to fucking believe. This is a photo of Frank Cirl. Literally him.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Literally him. This is what he looks like. Oh you're sending it to me I thought you're saying

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the picture I'm looking at of the thing was Frank Cirl. Yeah yeah Frank Cirl is the Loch Ness monster.

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay Frank Cirl. He's double-fist in cameras. He's tan as fuck. He's super tan. He's got a full head

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: hair at an undisclosed age. He's wearing a very fun outfit. He has what I would describe as

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: part of a palette under his feet. Yeah yeah he looks like he fucks. Whoa oh boy did he?

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So Frank Cirl was a photographer who moved into a tent on the side of the Loch and an attempts to

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: prove the monster exists. And wouldn't you know it he managed to take that photo that I showed you

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: just in time to release it to the press two days before Robert Ryan's released his. No one's

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: entirely sure how Frank knew what was going on in the Ryan's camp but words got a spread there's a

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: network out there of people living in tents near the Loch. I'm sure according to Mike Dash, a man

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: whom Cirl attempted to kill with a ball of top cocktail. Oh wow. Frank. Right. Not in a minute. Flaming

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Frank. They call them Mike says quote, the generally accepted take on Cirl is this. It's some point

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: around 1972 perhaps frustrated by his lack of results in monster hunting. He chants upon a log

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: floating in the Loch that happened to resemble a Humpton monster. A carefully composed photo

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: dated July 27th, 1972 brought in money and much better fame. Now I don't know he produced a lot of

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: against the one we're looking at. But anyway, this photo that he carefully composed to look like a

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: monster brought in money and much better fame. The latter fame attracted visitors to Cirl's

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: caravan site where the photographer soon erected a let's be fair here free exhibition and those

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: visitors could be persuaded to part with money for postcards, booklets, audio tapes and donations.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You would have been one of them. Oh absolutely. For Cirl's point of view, renowned also brought

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the useful perk of short-lived young female assistants. Oh Frank. He called them quote Girl Friday's

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: willing to share his watching duties and his bed. Wow. Frank the Skank. Frank the Skank. There

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: were several of these girls wanted Australia another abrid. A third, a Belgian named Leave Petan

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: reminisced. There was no romantic involvement not for him, not for me but there was a physical

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: involvement. It sounds harsh perhaps but that was the 70s people experimented and there was

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: no AIDS back then. That's true. This is because I think she's here whoever this is quote from

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Leave Petan one of his girlfriend is they seem to be describing those sixies. The 70s is pretty good

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: in the sense that yeah like kind of post coke pre-aids. Yeah so then back to Mike he says it seems

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: reasonable to assume that Leave and perhaps some of the other assistants recruited from small ads

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: in parts of the country where the unemployment was high were more attracted to the romance of

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: monster hunting than they were to the short baked bean munching prosthetic footed Frank Cirl. Wow.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: He was wounded in the war so hence his prosthetic foot. Well there's no reason to mean

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: he served. That's cool. Yeah what Mike talks shit on this guy because there was

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Mike and his people hated Frank. Yeah because Frank got all the chicks and Mike's sitting

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: underwater like trying to snap pictures of people and he's like oh man Frank tried to kill him

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: with a Molotov cocktail which we're getting to. Oh yeah so it sounds I can't trust Mike. He sounds

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: like a man who just wants to destroy Frank's reputation because he was one time at a flaming

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: bottle thrown at him. Mike says that Frank would continue to release his photos until 1983

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: becoming notorious for slightly tweaked versions of various images which featured extra

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: humps or subtly different angles. I mean I would say the very first photo of the photo that we saw

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the first photo I've seen honestly that's one more hump than I was expecting so you're saying

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: he just started adding humps that's pretty wild. Well he added a lot of different things but

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_02]: his photos you can see the photo we looked at and the reason I love that photo even though it's fake.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: He did have a charm to the way he made these photos they're clearer than most lackness monster

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: photos obviously because they're fake but there's something about the simplicity of the silhouette.

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know it's a photo that you kind of want to believe in it. It's a little ET like I don't know.

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it's interesting that you mentioned the word silhouette because all of the great

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: truly great memorable cartoon characters have a silhouette. Bart Simpson has a silhouette. You

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: turn the lights off you know exactly who that is. Mickey Mouse has a silhouette. Yeah. Pop-i has a

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: silhouette like just in silhouette you know exactly what they are and that's what makes them indoor for

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: 100 years and I feel like Nessie has a fucking silhouette. Yeah well that silhouette against a

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: background you go that's fucking Nessie and I think a great silhouette you can last a thousand years

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: with a great silhouette. Yeah I mean Guillermo de Toro talks about silhouettes in monster design all the time

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and how important a good silhouette is so you know Nessie definitely has one I think Frank's version in

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: particular has a charm to it so the other reason he got away with these kitschy pictures for years

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: though is because the papers that bought his shots didn't really care that they were fake they were just

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: selling newspapers. He also got away with it though because he was an intimidating man and was

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: widely feared around the lock for his behavior. The ironically named Tony Harmsworth

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_02]: said who helped set up the official Loch Ness monster exhibition which was a competitor to

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Sirrel's information sex hut told the glass go Harold that he once read a note stuck to his

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: car windshield that said something like your time is running out. Wow which you know he Frank saw

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: that he had some competition and wanted to chase them off so as people began investigating Sirrel

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in his hoaxes one man made a discovery in an invernest newspaper shop he found this postcard of

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: an apatosaurus which is a kind of dinosaur and when they closely examined the image they revealed

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: some startling similarities to several of Sirrel's photos it basically seemed that he had cut the

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_02]: image into thirds and glued each third to a different photo of the lock to produce three different

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_02]: photos one showing ahead in neck another showing a large single hump and a third showing a

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: tail emerging from the water. He's a collage artist on top of all of it yeah I mean yeah if you frame

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the trip ticket of those you could probably sell that for more money than saying that it's a real

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: photo I mean we'll be doing that guys it'll be in the store soon as the shop buys up keep an

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: eye out for our authentic Loch Ness monster photography oh it's gonna be sick dude Sirrel's

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: boiling anger and competition with others came to ahead in August 1983 when he launched that

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: infamous Molotov cocktail at an observation boat that Mike and a few other lookouts were cruising

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: on no one was harmed but the resulting investigation did cause Sirrel to flee the lock never to return

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: because he was there's a wanted man yeah yeah and a documentary it did find him later but it was

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: like a few months after he died I think he died basically broke in like a shitty apartment in London

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: so sad end to Frank Sirrel but sounds like a wildlife. I mean here's two things I want to

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: throw in here for 1983 because it's obviously like what an event Sirrel giving up the shores of

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Block Ness in 1983 is right up there with in 1983 kiss also stopped performing with makeup okay

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: is that a fact you just know off the top of your head? No and it wasn't even that they stop is that

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: they began performing what makeup I looked up in Portland events in 1983 to make sure that Frank was

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: on the list you understand I see we had a leg google no and he's not in the immediate

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: top part of the list dizzy channel was launched Los Angeles tornado a rare tornado with

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: winds of 157 miles an hour struck Los Angeles destroying homes and businesses. Twisters part two

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: coming up. Swissers part two it flipped cars and damaged the LA Convention Center oh so I'm looking

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: here and it's upsetting but it looks as though Frank leaving Loch Ness is not on the list of

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: important events in 1983 well we gotta juice those google search results so that we could make it

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the most important event of 1983 oh my will say in terms of like good bones you know better bones

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: than the bones of Loch Ness God I got to stop calling it Loch Ness it's not it's for its name

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: better bones than the bones that didn't exist of Nessie um I think we have a real

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: scared home video movie on our hands of like just Frank in his story and the like wild

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: love triangle that was like we're gonna be kings of the Loch Ness monsters you know lore

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: we're gonna call it what's his name Frank scuzzies? Sir all Frank sir all sirly Frank yeah

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: we're gonna call it Frank sirl our lore and savior and it's about like Loch Ness lore it's about

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: like the three guys who wanted to own the lore of Loch Ness well here's the other here's the other

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: little ingredient I'll add to sizzle into that stew in the 70s and this is for a different

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Loch Ness monster episode we could probably do a whole episode just on this piece of it

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Alistair Crowley the famous Satanist black magic practitioner who was also hanging out at

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_02]: JPL who was also hanging out at JPL bought a house near the shores of Loch Ness to do rituals in

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: live there with other people throughout the 70s this is a story you're not gonna hear

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: starting with so these millennials did this and I'm sure Frank sirl cross paths with him because

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Alistair Crowley was an notorious sex freak so I'm sure those girls were going back and forth

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: from the Loch Ness love tent up to the up to the house where Alistair was doing his rituals so

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah there's definitely a movie in 1970s Loch Ness and all the cooks and crazies and scientists

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: who were mingling around the shores of the Loch and we're gonna start working on that tomorrow so

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: if anybody hears this and tries to get and tries to Frank sirl us so help me go

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: throw a Maltop cocktail will go Frank sirl even harder on you yeah we're gonna go we're gonna double

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: down on sirl yeah all right so we've got one more photo in the photo file to get through add I'm

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: sent you the link to this one now this is my least favorite photo I don't really know why I

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: included it in the Loch Ness photo file it's just a piece of pizza it's not a bad thing with

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Loch Ness and just a photo of a piece of pizza it's an image you don't have to describe this to

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the listeners it's an image of three hampest spaced equidistant from each other in the Loch it's a boring

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: image you know I like images that look like real creatures there is no creature that ever did or ever

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: will live that has a back silhouette that looks like this it kind of looks like a stegosaurus in very

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: shallow water you would just see like three of its little spikes kind yeah kind of according to

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: the text accompanying the image actually on the photo file there's there's text in the photo copy

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_02]: a man named Loch Lens Stewart took this picture on July 14th 1951 he claimed that he thought

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: he was seeing a powerboat at first but it seemed removing too fast to be a boat plus you know

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: the three hams so we got out his camera and popped off a shot before it disappeared which immediately

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I say come on man there in 1951 cameras were better than they were in the 1930s but something

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: moving at the speed of a powerboat is going to have a little motion blur and not only that if you

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: look at the photo as I am with my human eyes there seems to be no wake whatsoever obviously

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah it's like it's completely still water on like all sides of them yes so pass fake I don't know

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: people say they think it's rocks I don't even think it's rocks I think that's being too generous

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: because those don't look like rocks and they'd still be there yeah yeah like rocks wouldn't move I

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: know those floating rocks was famous floating rocks I think Loch Lens Stewart 100% fake this I

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: don't know how he probably just floated some shit out there some garbage bags tied together or something

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: so pass fuck that moving on to the end of the Loch Ness monster chapter page 12

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: little Chris moved on from his photo file to a page with I know you think these are Bart Simpson

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: like it's just how I drew people okay so we have a new page here and it looks like this is the

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: worst part Simpson today it is I don't even know a yellow blob with a flat top haircut one eye

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: is this even a person it's a person this is just how I drew people add what is it's like if

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Bart Simpson and Herman monster fuck it's just what is this set as it's saying is it thinking of

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: those stop bubbles well so the page says I don't know if you believe in the Loch Ness monster but

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I said in the first chapter here is a story that might change your mind and then the thought bubble

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: says I think I'll think twice next time because I knew better all right so the near motorcycle crash

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Barroom Barroom Alex Campbell age 28 was driving his motorcycle along the road by Loch Ness when

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: all of a sudden in very large capital letters oh wow he saw the Loch Ness monster he put his foot to

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: break and the Loch Ness monster slid away just in time so next time you go to Loch Ness watch out

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you never know when the monster will strike next there are some crazy indentations like after

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: periods sometimes you have like 60 spaces sometimes you have one and the funny thing is I wasn't

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: typing these we would write them long hand and then like room moms at the public school like other

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: people's parents would come in moms who knew how to use computers and they would type it up for us oh

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: wow that is an interesting fact we'd sit next to them and they would type it up this is so crazy

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: then so you got like you got BTK who helped you with yours yeah unfortunately I had actually

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: think I had a woman who's son his sold two companies to Facebook now so none of that rubbed off on me

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: no shit fuck but that's it that's the end of the Loch Ness monster chapter but of course

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that's not the end of the episode because I had to do my re-research to fact check my young

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: self and it turns out I really mixed up this chapter or this story because it wasn't until I

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: researched the episode that I discovered I actually mixed up two different Loch Ness tales into one

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that's okay I mixed up two different Loch Ness photos earlier into one the story I told in the book

[01:18:49] [SPEAKER_02]: is actually the story of a man named Arthur Grant not Alex Campbell the story I got pretty much

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: correct Arthur Grant was a veterinary student and in an article from historicuk.com I confirmed

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that quote Grant was returning from Inverness on his motorbike around 1 am when he almost collided

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_02]: with a dark object coming across the road in the bright moon light Grant was able to notice the

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: small head long neck large body flippers and tail frightened by the motorbike it quickly fled

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: back into the Loch Grant was amazed it was unlike any animal he had ever seen. Wait so as you're saying

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that fucking Nessie can it's can the cruise on land oh yeah and again that's a whole other episode

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a whole subgenre of Nessie on land stories there's there's a lot of them but Alex Campbell

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: the name that I used in Arthur Grant's story is a different guy very influential in Loch Ness lore

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: he was a local water balif which is a hilarious term for basically like a local co-scard like

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: co-scard at the lake position okay and he was also a stringer for the Inverness Corrier which was

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: the local newspaper one morning September 7th my birthday 1933 he was patrolling the lock when

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: saw something strange in the water but what exactly he saw I think is a really interesting look

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: at how myth and legend and lore comes to be. Campbell was introduced the Loch Ness monster via

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: the first sighting ever reported in the media that of Aldi Makai and her husband John on April 15th 1933

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: they were driving home from the hotel they managed when they saw what Aldi described as quote

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: an enormous creature with the body of a whale rolling in the water she yelled for her husband to

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: stop the car by the time he'd done so all he could see were ripples and an anniversary article

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: an eighty-th anniversary article that was just published a couple years ago a newspaper called the

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Scottsman reported that quote as the commotion subsided a big wake spread across the water towards

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Alduri Pier on the opposite shore then about halfway across two black humps emerged moving in line

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: the rear one somewhat larger than the front one they moved forward in a rolling motion like whales

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_02]: or porpoises but with no fins visible rising and sinking in an angelating manner then the objects

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: turned sharply to port which is the left and after describing a half circle suddenly sank

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: with considerable commotion the paper goes on to say this the Makai's experience soon reached

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Alex Campbell the water bailiff in fort Augustus who reported it to the local newspaper the

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Inverness courier because he was a stringer reporter for them in his sensational report on May 2nd 1933

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_02]: then editor Evan Barran described what had been seen as a monster and the modern legend of

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Nessie was born Aldi's immediate conclusion was that so Aldi the woman who was driving with her husband

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah believe that they had seen the beast which was her reference to the legendary water kelpty

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: or water horse that had long been reported to inhabit Loch Ness if you don't know anything about

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Kelpys long story short is that they were basically there believed to be evil spirits to take

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: delight in luring travelers to their death by drowning. There's no like a fucking kids movie from a

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_02]: couple years ago called the water horse there is while and it's a Loch Ness monster movie

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: it wasn't evil was it look like a that would move as a kids movie no I mean Kelpys in folklore are evil

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the term kelpys has now become something that gets used in cartoons and stuff in kids

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: movies for like a mystical water creature but got you the original kelpys would kill you and the

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: story is think that kelpys was a you know myth used to explain why people drowned in lakes

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and why when the body didn't reappear the story kind of led to the conclusion that it was taken

[01:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: whisked away to some other world and it was believed that while mankind possessed the land water

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: was the preserve of this other world we've seen that a lot there's like water is like the

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: we've talked about in nothing other episodes were like water is what there's like the lubricant

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: between the veil or whatever you need water to travel between our reality and other realities

[01:23:11] [SPEAKER_01]: they do a great job of that actually in consenting the canterias version yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[01:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: so there were similar beliefs about every lake in Scotland but because of the size of Loch Ness the Kelpys

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_02]: living there was thought to be the biggest there's a bunch of other really interesting connections

[01:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: between Kelpys and Nessie but again that's another episode but it's important here is that Alex Campbell

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: wrote a sensationalized story about Aldi's sighting for the Inveness Corrier which ran it under the

[01:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: strange spectacle on Loch Ness colon what was it and then a few months later

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Campbell has his own sighting on September 7th 1933 he shared that story in a few different

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: forms over the years most famously in a drawing and handwritten letter that he produced in 1970

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: so 40 years on from when he first saw the creature in it it's really hard to read the handwriting

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: but on his drawing he's drawn this creature labeled as six feet tall which is the distance of

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_02]: its head and neck coming out of the water and about 30 feet long I can't tell you what he actually

[01:24:18] [SPEAKER_02]: wrote in the drawing because like I said I can't really read it but we have a version of his story

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: published in something called Everybody's Magazine in March 1959 in which his description goes like this

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: the early morning mist was clearing fast as I came out of my cottage on the banks of Loch Ness

[01:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it was a June morning in 1934 then as the mist shredded away under the warm sunlight I witnessed

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_02]: the most incredible sight I've seen in my 40 years as a water bailiff on Scotland's biggest lock

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: something rose from the water like a monster of prehistoric times measuring a full 30 feet from

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: tip to tail it had a long, serious neck and a flat reptilian head its skin was grayish black

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: tough looking and just behind where the neck joined the body was a giant hump like that on a camel

[01:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: though many times bigger I pinched myself hard but it was no dream the Loch Ness monster out there

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: in the water was real and tangible for several minutes at least they're contendantly basking in

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_02]: early sunlight the sound of a couple harring drifters approaching from the lower base in of the

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Caldoni and canal broke the spell and as the drifter came nearer it lowered its long neck and

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_02]: dived out of the dark surface of the lock disappearing in a turmoil of water and setting up a

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: miniature tidal wave I have seen one of these strange denizens of the lock for there are certainly

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: more than one several times since but never quite so clearly so pretty compelling story yeah

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: but some dedicated researchers found evidence in a book published in June 1934 which is when he said

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: that this took place in 1959 that pretty much takes the wind at a Campbell sales here now this book

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a physical copy of it I could not find a digital copy of it so I can't 100% tell you

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that I read this written in the book but I assume the website that I have linked in the show notes

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: did not make this up wholesale if anybody has this book please feel free to fact check me this book is

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: called the lockness monster and others by a man named rubric gold again published in June 1934 so

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: rubric gold went to lockness he was another guy who's like a really fascinating character

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_02]: he was like a world class fixer of clocks and watches and stuff and guy was fascinated by

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: the lockness legend he went there he did a lot of on the ground first hand reporting from the lock

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: collecting people statements collecting letters and he was not a credulous guy or not an

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: incredulous guy not a he wasn't going there to prove that it was real you kind of wanted to

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: get away at the land and see what he thought and he came away believing in the lockness monster even though

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: he did not talk about the surgeon's photo which people think is because it was already a popular

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: photo at the time and the thinking goes that somebody told him look even if you suspect it's fake

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: don't say that in the book because it's better that you just don't say anything about it sure

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: has makes sense yeah so he came away believing it was real even though that photo he believed to be fake

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and even though he collected this letter from Alex Campbell to his employers the nest district

[01:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: fishery board it's dated October 28th 1933 and this is what it says one day early last month

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: September 7th 1933 at about half past nine in the morning I was watching this end of the lock

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: the light was very uncertain there being a fairly thick haze on the water and along with this

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: sun was shining directly in my eye through the mist making the visibility very bad I had not been

[01:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: watching for more than a minute before I noticed a strange object on the surface about 600 guards

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: from where i stood it seemed to be about 30 feet long and what i took to be the head was fully

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: five feet above the surface of the lock the creature if such it was and at the time I felt certain

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: of it seemed to be watching two drifters passing out of the canal into lockness and whether it was

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: due to imagination or not I could have sworn that it kept turning its head and also its body very

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: quickly in much the same way as a quamerant does on rising to the surface I saw this for fully

[01:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: a minute then the object vanished is if it had sunk out of sight so we got the drifters we got

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_01]: its sunbathing sort of sunbathing we went from a minute to ten minutes and you know the 30 feet long

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: to head five feet above the water all seems pretty similar that he says last Friday I was

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_02]: watching the lock at the same place and about the same time of day the weather was almost identical

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: practically calm in the sun shining through a hazy kind of mist in a short time something very

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: like what i have described came into my line of vision and it roughly the same distance from where

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I stood but the light was improving all the time and in a matter of seconds I discovered that

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I took to be the monster was nothing more than a few quamerants and was seem to be the head

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: was a quamerant standing in the water and flapping its wings as they often do.

[01:29:30] [SPEAKER_02]: The other quamerants who are strung out in a line behind the leading bird looked in the poor

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: light at first glance just like the body or humps of the monster as it has been described

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: by various witnesses but the most important thing was that owing to the uncertain light the

[01:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: bodies were magnified out of all proportion to their proper size this mirage like a fact

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: they have often seen on lock nests although not exactly in the same form as i have just described

[01:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: other people who know the lock can verify my statement as to the mirage but it only occurs under certain

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_02]: conditions and if the lock is calm then it gives every object from say a goal or a bottle

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: to an empty barrel of very grotesque appearance provided that such objects are far enough away

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: from the observer. Huh so basically it's like you know how three little kids can

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: sit in each other's shoulders and a trench coat may be either an adult yeah he's saying that like

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: given certain times a day certain weather situations you can get like a bunch of birds

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you know garbage bag looks like a monster looks like a like a lockie yeah we're following

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: a blockie now sure go for it because this first name is lock nests lockie lockie nessie so

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: i didn't go too far down this rabbit hole i found a lot of a couple of articles that were

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: ex-cambled defenders online saying that this stuff all came out later and that people are trying

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: to ruin his good name and that's why i would love to track down this book maybe i'll just order

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: a reprint of it or something because i want to see the context in which this letter see if rich

[01:31:01] [SPEAKER_02]: atom has it oh yeah rich might because even if you can find it it's like sure maybe rooper fake

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the letter at the time but why would you do that it would appear to me that this book was published

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_02]: contemporaneously pretty much you know a year after this letter was written and that at some point

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: after this Alex Campbell decided he wanted to believe in the lock nests monster and kind of took back

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: the fact that he had written this letter the only curious thing to me is supposedly this letter

[01:31:31] [SPEAKER_02]: was written to his employers i don't know why you would write this letter to your employers

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: dear employer today i saw maybe birds yeah anyway how is it with you at work i you know i i that i

[01:31:45] [SPEAKER_02]: don't know maybe maybe some other monster myth and legends had spread and he was like no i'll set

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: them straight i don't i'm not sure but it's also very telling i mean the reason i'm ending

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: the episode with this is he's one of the only people that i have ever read to say in no one's

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms there is a mirage like effect that occurs on lock nests that makes small things look much bigger

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that you can ask other people who work on the lock and they would confirm that he was like he even says

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: like yeah if you ask anybody around here like who really knows this fucking place they'll tell you

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that happens yeah so that i find so interesting and wonder how many sightings over the years whatever

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: this visual mirage effect is you know i'm curious how many times that has been the reason that

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: somebody has thought they've seen something i'm looking up in vernes and apparently in 2008 it

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: was voted basically the best place for quality of life in Scotland oh dude i apparently a fucking

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: vibe but it has its population has almost doubled since 2012 yeah so i wonder if it still is

[01:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: the most you know such a vibe oh yeah well i will say this i never ask our listeners for anything

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_02]: except to subscribe to premium but the other thing i will ask is if anyone listening to this show

[01:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: can help get your boy to lock nests i would be forever grateful if you can put me up for a couple

[01:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: days it will come to an episode from your house yeah i'm a person we're coming to Scotland baby

[01:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: lock nests is i've said this before my wife knows this like it is my macca it is my it's my

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: imagination macca it is a place that i have thought of for so long that i feel like i need to go

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_02]: someday put my feet in the water like it's almost a religious thing for me at this point and i don't

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_02]: even i'm pretty skeptical that this thing even exists anymore but i just it is such a mind palace that

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: go to all the time i would love nothing more than to go spend a couple days drinking some pints

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and walking around and what you're not alone like i said uh invernesse if that's even how you say it

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_01]: who many i think i don't know get to official or not but many claim is the capital of the highlands

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and unfortunately for them has the Earl of Invernesse who is Prince Andrew who's Epstein's good

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_01]: no really he is the Earl of Invernesse and apparently when the Epstein scandals shit all started

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the people of invernesse really hey this isn't a vibe we don't like his name attached to this place

[01:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: anymore but he remains he remains he according to macca pia is still the present Earl of Invernesse

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: we gotta get some new lock nests monster photos circulating to get people to forget that that

[01:34:35] [SPEAKER_02]: he should have spearheaded that he should have yeah he should have been like oh these photos of me

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: with underage uh i i bought instead look my other hand rave new photos of nests he yeah he's like you

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: know who took that photo Frank sirl now what Frank sirl she's one of Frank sirl cutouts she's one of

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Frank sirl's cutouts yeah yeah you you know uh fucking Prince Andrew his fucking name is yeah

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_01]: would have been hanging out Frank sirl that piece of shit oh my god i bet i imagine that group

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_02]: of the fucking Prince Andrew uh also out Frank sirl they got up to some troubles some dirty business

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_01]: uh around lock nests yeah but we'll go we'll ignore that fact that uh invernesse is growing bigger

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_01]: than it can probably handle and has a creep yeah with a official title there um but we're still

[01:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: comments let us know yeah actually i'll all stake this we will do a live show or maybe not a live show

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: we will do a show from lock nests it's not that expensive to get over there it's just the staying

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: there and the you know when i was in Scotland i was staying with people i know but they are nowhere

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_01]: he's not even asked i'm like what fucking going to lock nests for like that is hours north of where we are

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_02]: but we will do a show from there we'll do a what do all seats from lock nests because there's all

[01:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: kinds of weird myths and legends in that area so also any other podcasts from that area wanted to

[01:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: do like a fucking crossover with us we'll do that too yeah for sure all right so that basically brings

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: us to the end of the episode now again this is slightly special episode this is a fear of the unknown

[01:36:01] [SPEAKER_02]: episode of scared all the time which means back to our pilot back to our pilot it means we are not

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: gonna have fear tear instead we're going to have what Ed has coined the is it here tear which is

[01:36:13] [SPEAKER_02]: our ranking of believability and how much we believe that this unknown thing uh exists in this case

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: this is really hard for me because i want to put it so high i want to put this up with like

[01:36:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you know bugs like yeah it exists i'm sure it exists but i don't know if i can i mean let me do this

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: i'm gonna put nessie it like a seven out of ten on the is it here tear because there is definitely

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: cryptids that are way less likely and i can think of one or two that are more likely so i'll put

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: like in like a seven okay this is tough because i'm willing to believe everything's here so uh it would

[01:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: be pretty hard for me to just go like that a hundred percent doesn't exist because i'm like you have

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_01]: mentioned in the past i am like an i want to believe person to begin with but yeah i would put nessie

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: as a seven out of ten as well because that is a really deep lake and there is a river attached to it

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: in other stuff like there's places to hide and i think about this because i had just discovered like a

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: long island sound which is where my family lives on long island sounds and we were walking

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_01]: by the water that's what the water we were looking at is it's like between long island and genetic

[01:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: it you know then the Atlantic's beyond that i just discovered that uh the deepest point of the

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: long island sound is 40 feet deep and like i've driven on boats through that shit i've never i've been

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: on sail boats yeah and i've never been like well 40 feet below us yeah there's the fucking dirt

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and the absolute deepest yeah so to have like you had hundreds of feet i feel like you said 7777

[01:37:48] [SPEAKER_01]: possibly 800 that's really fucking deep maybe it's not really deep but in my mind it's like

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: i have been on fairies across the long island sound a million times and it's a giant fairy

[01:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah and it handles it fine so so 700 feet that's a lot of space for something to like be scooting around

[01:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah there's supposedly there's evidence that there's caves down there yes the rivers that

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: in and out to the ocean like it's not impossible so here's a note to end on robber rines near

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: the end of his life decided that since he could not find evidence of the Loch Ness Monster

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_02]: it must have died which is which is and then he kind of shifted his his search from evidence

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: of a living creature to try to find a skeleton which i think is such a human centric way of

[01:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: looking at the myth of like you know this is a man who put forth a theory that pleased you

[01:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: source survived an extra 60 million years and that 12,000 years ago got fenced off into Loch

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Ness by the ice age and then has the temerity to say oh well it just died like right after i saw it

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: now they're dead yeah yeah now it's dead like come on man hand as evidenced by the other

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: animal you talked about the other like dinosaur we've discovered that now is thriving and has

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: so the sealic hand yeah and it's like yeah dude i mean really the water man it's dark it's deep

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: hmm let's do his caves down there you can go into the sand it's this we don't we can't spend a lot of

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: time down there yeah it is easy for me to believe that something that is described as a dinosaur

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that lives in deep water in a world in which we know that there are straight up dinosaur as shit

[01:39:32] [SPEAKER_01]: still around like yeah it's as a very good yeah seven out of ten seven out of ten on a thing

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: we just invented mere minutes ago love it love it seven out of ten all right guys well listen

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_02]: that is scared all the time season three i hope you've enjoyed it stay tuned there's a lot more

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: coming we're still doing a live show even though we're gonna have a few weeks off we'll be doing

[01:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: a live show during those weeks off if you're subscribed to premium you'll still be getting your

[01:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: button of the month if you're subscribed to the i'm terrified tier and the store is going to be open

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: soon like we are just getting started we're less than a year into this and keep listening i hope

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: you enjoy it we love doing this yeah thanks so much everybody this has been such a wild ride

[01:40:17] [SPEAKER_01]: so far and it's a lot of work it's a lot of work so that's why when we always take a little longer

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: then we'd like to get things going but we just want to do things well and on that note if you hate

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_01]: this very special type of episode we're not against being a Robert Rines and saying that it died

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_01]: uh it's quickly as we've discovered it but i hope not because it was fun for me and we'll see

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_01]: we'll try and keep doing them every once in a while yeah all right so that's the episode hell yeah

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: thanks guys until next season i'm Chris Colari and i'm Edvecola and this is scared all the time bye

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: scared all the time is co-produced by Chris Colari an Edvecola written by Chris Colari

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: edited by Edvecola additional support and keeper of sanity is test-fifle our theme song is the

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: track scared by perpetual stew and mr. disclaimer is a f*** and just a reminder you can now support

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: the podcast on supercast and get all kinds of cool shit in return depending on the tear

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: your choose will be offering everything from ad free episodes superducer credits exclusive access

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[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: don't worry full steady text welcome no part of the show can be re-prepared anywhere with that

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: permission copyright just don't machine legends productions night we are in this together together